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| katichka | Thursday 21st of April 2005 07:21:28 PM |
| Lesson 3 - Hello, everyone! Thanks for giving me an idea for a next publication. So, Bulgarian verbs are sth rather specific - Bulgarian (and maybe Macedonian) are the only Slavonic languages where the infinitive has disappeared, so that`s one form less for you to learn as instead of infinitive we use 1st person singular.That`s the good news, I guess, as in Bulgarian verbs change according to form and person. There are only 3 groups of verbs and below I`ll give you examples with them and how they change in the Present tense. Аз (I) Ти (You sing.) Той (He) Тя (She) То (neutrum) Ние (We) Вие (You - plural or polite) Те (They) Group 1: ЧЕТА (TO READ) Аз ЧЕТА Ти ЧЕТЕШ Той ЧЕТЕ Тя ЧЕТЕ То ЧЕТЕ Ние ЧЕТЕМ Вие ЧЕТЕТЕ Те ЧЕТАТ GROUP 2 МЕЧТAЯ (TO DREAM) Аз МЕЧТАЯ Ти МЕЧТАЕШ Той МЕЧТАЕ Тя МЕЧТАЕ То МЕЧТАЕ Ние МЕЧАТЕМ Вие МЕЧТАЕТЕ Те МЕЧТАЯТ GROUP 3 ВЗЕМАМ(TO TAKE) Аз ВЗЕМАМ Ти ВЗЕМАШ Той ВЗЕМА Тя ВЗЕМА То ВЗЕМА Ние ВЗЕМАМЕ Вие ВЗЕМАТЕ Те ВЗЕМАТ If you want to exercise, please do the following verbs (you can also do them here n I`ll check them for you) ПИША - to write РИСУВАМ - to paint, to draw ГЛЕДАМ - to watch МИСЛЯ - to think ГОВОРЯ - to talk, to speak ВЯРВАМ - to believe СЛУШАМ - to listen ЯМ - to eat ПИЯ - to sleep ИМАМ | |
| emmers4life | Friday 22nd of April 2005 04:47:44 AM |
| thank you! - im so happy you have posted this! Stani was trying to send me emails explaining verbs, but i couldnt read them bc the font messed up. so i appreciate this lesson a lot! | |
| stormgoblin | Friday 22nd of April 2005 05:45:05 AM |
| yay! - ya blagodaryu vas. i was using an older computer before, and the text on it was very small. but on this one i can see everything. sorry about misinforming you, if i did. one suggestion might be to list accent marks for the verbs, because i know in russian it can be tricky, plus with the forms it changes. may i ask you a question? on mechtae, is that pronounced with a soft "e" sound, meaning it sounds like "ye"? i can not imagine how to pronounce it without making it soft. but i thought that the bulgarian alphabet only used a soft a. ...well, i guess i can kinda imagine how it would sound without the "ye" sound. i was curious about that. thank you very much for your help, katichka. lublyu ya, ochen, tebya. | |
| stormgoblin | Friday 22nd of April 2005 06:02:49 AM |
| conjugation - az pisha ti pishesh toi, tya, to pishe nie pishem vie pishete te pishat az pisuvam ti pisuvamesh toi tya to pisuvama nie pisuvamame (sounds weird, maybe just pisuvame?) vie pisuvamete te pisuvamat i think i understand why the forms change. the first is a single consonante (cheTe). the second uses a consonant cluster before the end vowel, so in order to offset that, an extra vowel is thrown in, in order to make it sound softer (meCHTaYA). in the third, is it something like there is a consonant cluster at the beginning, and so an extra "am" is thrown in to soften the word. that's all i think i have to go. thanks, again. --me | |
| katichka | Friday 22nd of April 2005 02:44:23 PM |
| - Hi, Stormgoblin! To answer your first question - мечтае is not pronounced with a soft E, but with a normal one, and the stress is on A. I will take your remark and in the future will put stresses on words, thanks:-). Just for your information, as i see you comapre Bulgarian to Russian a lot, phonetically, these languages are very far away (I have done Russian at school, so trust me), grammatically too...there are some similarities in vocabulary, but not many - Russian is in the East Slavic group of languages, and Bulgarian - in the South Slavic group. So it is easer to comapre Bulgarian to Macedonian, Serbian, Croatian and Slovenian than to Russian. Your first verb is perfect, well done! The second one is: РИСУВАМ (pronounced RISUVAM, with an R) аз рисувам ти рисуваш той, тя то рисува ние рисуваме вие рисувате те рисуват Just follow the patterns and kep on:-))) | |
| stormgoblin | Saturday 23rd of April 2005 12:02:25 PM |
| - yeah. i relate bulgarian to russian, because that's what i know, and from my perspective as an english speaker, the two languages are quite similar. it is easy for me to make these connections. like chitayu in russian=cheta in bulgarian. and i learned the cyrillic alphabet when i took russian. az vyarvam ti vyarvash toi tya to vyarva nie vyarvame vie vyarvate te vyarvat az piya ti piesh toi tya to pie nie piem vie piete te piyat az yam ti yamesh toi tya to yame nie yamete te yamat that does seem strange to me, because i know that yem is irregular in russian. thanks for your help, katitchka. yeah, i sometimes slip my mind and write cyrillic r like english p. see you later. --me | |
| Mahmut | Sunday 24th of April 2005 11:03:08 PM |
| - Az Gledam Ti gledash Toj,Tja,To Gleda Nie Gledame Vie Gledate Te Gledat Az mislja Ti mislesh Toj,Tja,To Misle Nie Mislem Vie Mislete Te Misljat Az govorja Ti govoresh Toj,Tja,To govore Nie govorem Vie govorete Te govorjat But why is I = Az in bulgarian? its totally different from the other slavic countries where I = Ja... I dont know if you have an answer to that? i just find it weird. They also use Az for I in kurdish (kurmanji)... does that have any relations? or what? hope you can answer me | |
| stormgoblin | Monday 25th of April 2005 02:36:56 AM |
| to mahmut - here's my guess. i think of the basic letters in conglomeration with one another. "a" means "and/whereas" and "z" is used usually in words of association, i think. like vzemam means take, so "v" is "in" and "z" kinda means "in-from" or something. that's how i understand it. "iz" means "out from" i believe, like with verbs of direction. so, logically, perhaps "az" means "whereby-with," which kinda supports the necessity for 1st person identity. i hope that makes sense. that's how i look at it, since you asked. obviously, its intuitive logic, no outside authority explained this to me. see you later. --me | |
| stormgoblin | Monday 25th of April 2005 03:16:10 AM |
| guess what - i just looked at katichka's post on the bulgarian alphabet, and wouldn't you know, she mentioned "az" in there. it's the first letter of the glagolitic alphabet. i still kinda like my interpretation,but maybe it does make more sense that "i" means the first letter of the alphabet. see you, peace | |
| katichka | Monday 25th of April 2005 12:45:05 PM |
| - Hiii! I`m really happy with how you are getting on these verbs! Congratulations!I know it`s hard, well, I se it now - there are quite a lot of kind of irregulars, which we, natives, don`t think about. STormgoblin has a point - Ям is an irregular in Bulgarian as well: Ям Ядеш Яде Ядем Ядете Ядем And the stress is always on the second syllable for all forms. Говоря Говориш Говори Говорим Говорите Говорят Мисля Мислиш Мисли Мислим Мислите Мислят Ok, grammar corrected, we`re moving on to the next issue: Аз - never really thought about the semantics. It could reallly be because of the first letter of the glagollic alphabet, thus symbollizing that the individual world starts with them themselves, but there could be also other explanations. It is true that there are quite heavy influences on Bulgarian from Turkish and so even some Arabic words have established themselves in Bulgarian. On the other hand, I`m no expert for all Slavonic languages, but in Slovenian I is Jaz, and phonetically I think Bulgarian is closest to Slovenian - I know it sounds weird and it shocked me to see that the first time in Slovenia but it is true. Also, in some Bulgarian dialects they do say Ja. Hm, I hope sb competent will join us in this discusion to let us know for sure. | |
| hami | Monday 25th of April 2005 03:58:00 PM |
| - I am not sure but I think it is "AZ"' not "JA" because the old Bulgarians /prabulgari/ were not Indoeuropean people and they spoke Altaic language /like Turkish/. But after Slavs and Old Bulgarians became Bulgarians /one nation/. Maybe, because of this... Bulgarian is not a clear Slavonic language. There are some words from the language of the Old Bulgarians. :) | |
| katichka | Monday 25th of April 2005 08:23:55 PM |
| - Съм - to be Аз съм Ти си Той, тя, то е Ние сме Вие сте Те са Мога - can Аз мога Ти можеш Той, тя, то може Ние можем Вие можете Те могат | |
| katichka | Monday 25th of April 2005 08:24:26 PM |
| I`ve thought of 2 more irregular verbs - Съм - to be Аз съм Ти си Той, тя, то е Ние сме Вие сте Те са Мога - can Аз мога Ти можеш Той, тя, то може Ние можем Вие можете Те могат | |
| stormgoblin | Thursday 28th of April 2005 01:01:12 PM |
| ШОГД - thank you very much for your help, katichka. i had a question about the irregularity of говоря. is there some kind of rule that we can say about words like these? i'm guessing there are more words that take this form. i'm thinking that it relates to the softness of the "р," and that eliminates the need for an extra vowel, as in мечтая. so, maybe, as when there are soft consonants followed by a я, then the rest of the forms will substitute an и. oh gee, i just noticed there obviously are other words like that, you put one below говоря.--мисля. so far, it stands to reason. it makes enough sense, but why is я added in the 3rd person plural? because the т which follows it is a hard consonant. in every other form, the consonant that follows и is softer? those are my ideas about it... thanks again, for the conjugations of сьм, i realize i was covering that in my russian lessons this last week...or, a little. | |
| stormgoblin | Thursday 28th of April 2005 01:11:28 PM |
| имам - аз имам ти имаш той тя то има ние имаме вие имате те имаят ?това е прав? нямам нямаш няма нямаме нямате нямаят нямам аз не едно друг. лека нощ, стормгоблин | |
| katichka | Thursday 28th of April 2005 02:36:16 PM |
| - Hi, Stormgoblin! Perhaps you are right - if we have a verb ending in consonant plus Я, then in the second and third person singular and the first and second person plural Я changes into И. And If before Я in the first person singular there is a vowel, then in the second and third person singular and the first and second person plural Я changes into Е. m, I`d never thought of that... And well done, имам is a good one, only one mistake - имат - in the third person plural. The same thing in нямам - нямат in the third person plural. Everything else is perfect!Well, I told you, mixing one language with another leads to no good:-)Keep on! | |
| sandman | Thursday 19th of May 2005 11:48:44 AM |
| - well, i guess АЗ is not old bulgarian. it is old slavonic and church slavonic. several centuries ago russians were using it. old slavonic АЗ ЕСМЬ = current bulgarian АЗ СЪМ in fact, bulgarian remained the closest to the church slavonic. many words in it are used in russian only in church service or related things. such as агне ( агнец ), верига ( вериги ) etc. in russian there's an old saying, told to person, when he talks too much of himself (i.e. saying many I) я - последняя буква азбуки (I is the last letter in alphabet) meaning "you should be less selfish - it is the last thing to speak about oneself" and the person could answer: да аз - первая (but AZ (another I) is the first) currently only the first part is used, since азбука is rarely used in russian, алфавит is used instead. and the first letter in алфавит is not AZ but A %) я - последняя буква алфавита (I is the last letter in alphabet) AZ currently is used in russian in the meaning "the very beginning": начинать с азов - to begin from AZ-es | |
| katichka | Wednesday 08th of June 2005 01:45:12 AM |
| - What`s with you people?No questions on Bulgarian verbs any more?Or is that summer is too close and we all feel happy and lazy?:-)) | |
| stormgoblin | Wednesday 08th of June 2005 02:46:47 PM |
| - that's likely. i wish i were more lazy. in fact, i think i need it. so, to satisfy your response, i will ask you what is the word for goofing around (verb). in russian its гулять, или так аз мисла. then i will try to conjugate it in a couple of different tenses. i think people might have been waiting for the next lesson of verb tenses, since we got tired of the present tense. isn't it true, no one likes to live in the present? thanks, see you later, me | |
| anniedee | Wednesday 08th of June 2005 06:53:29 PM |
| Verb practice - And problems already. Bulgarian verb practice PRONOUN VERB PRONOUN VERB i write аэ пиша You(s) write ти пишеш He writes той пише She writes та пише It writes то пише We write ние пишем You write вие пишете They write те пишат Am I pronouncing this : pisha, pishesh,pishe . pishem, pishete, pishat? PRONOUN VERB PRONOUN VERB i paint аэ рисувам You (s) paint ти рисуваш He paints той рисува She paints та рисува It paints то рисува We paint ние рисуваме You (pl)paint вие рисувате They paint те рисуват Risoovam, risoovash,risoova, risoovame, risoovate, risoovat PRONOUN VERB PRONOUN VERB i watch аэ гледам You (s) watch ти гледаш He watches той гледа She watches та гледа It watches то гледа We watch ние гледаме You watch вие гледате They watch те гледат Gledam, gledash, gleda, gledami, gledate, gledat Verb practice….2 PRONOUN VERB PRONOUN VERB i think аэ мисля You think ти мислиш He thinks той мисли She thinks та мисли It thinks то мисли We think ние мислим You think вие мислите They think те мислят Dear Katichka Мисля I may have got confused here because of notes between you and Stormgoblin. Is this one right and am I pronouncing it mislya mislish misli mislim. Mislite. Mislyat ? I would also like to know it the present tense simple can also mean I am writing etc? Thanks very much Annie | |
| katichka | Wednesday 08th of June 2005 07:12:18 PM |
| - Здравей Stormgoblin! I see you are high in energy, so great, here is a task for you, in Bulgarian гулять is купонясвам or if you want to sound not SO informal, then you use веселя се . I myself use the first one:-))) Здравей Ани!! First of all, fel very welcome here in the Bulgarian forum! Then, to aid you a bit: 1.She is ТЯ is Bulgarian, pronounced like TYA 2. Then, well done with the verb to write, you write and pronounced totally correctly! 3.The only thing about Гледаме is that it is pronounced GLEDAME (well, in some dialects it really sounds like GLEDAMI, but it is not) 4. You are right about the pronunciation of MISLYA, it is MISLYA, maybe Stormgoblin got confused or heard sb say it in dialect, so don`t worry, you`re on good way! 5. You`re right about Present Tense - in bulgarian there is just one Present Tense, and it is used both in cases where in English is used Present Simple and Present Continious, so Аз пиша. can mean both I write (usual action) and I`m writing (meaning now) Hope I`ve been of hope to you two and to all the enthusiasts out there:-)) | |
| anniedee | Wednesday 08th of June 2005 07:18:07 PM |
| Many thanks - Your time and help is really appreciated here Katichka. Really motivating to have someone to ask about things. Annie | |
