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sandmanThursday 03rd of February 2005 04:08:00 PM
'tot' - my grammar book says there're no forms for G,D singular for 'tot'. and N,A sg. forms with prepositions (al, a, ai, ale for G, la for D) are used instead (it says it's considered not completely correct %). well, we have only one possibility to say 'tot' in G,D sg but it's incorrect !

moreover, i found with google some usages of 'totului', 'toatei'.

the book also says that G,D plural form (tuturor) can be replaced by N,A plural forms with the same prepositions.
and again, i found with google usages of 'toţilor', 'toatelor'

can someone clear up for me, which forms are used, and when, what is correct, what is incorrect but used etc ?

i'm also curious when the forms 'toata', 'toţii', 'toatele' are used.

rbrumaFriday 04th of February 2005 03:06:08 PM
- Indeed, there's no DGsg form for 'tot, toată'. The form 'totului' is used when 'tot' is taken as a noun (meaning 'the whole' in philosophical/metaphorical speech) like in "partea se opune totului" (the part is opposed to the whole).

'toatei' is an old form, not used any more (it was rarely used more than 100 yrs. ago). Today it may appear as a poetic form or as a plain mistake.

When used in sg., 'tot' in DG is usually replaced with the forms of 'Óntreg, Óntreagă'. So:

'toată clasa' (the whole class) but
'a Óntregii clase'

'toţilor' & 'toatelor' are gross mistakes. Some modern poets use them to achieve some stylistic effects. I doubt about their taste.
sandmanFriday 04th of February 2005 04:33:21 PM
- thanks a lot %)
very useful answer

but the question on 'toata', 'toţii', 'toatele' still stands
sandmanFriday 04th of February 2005 08:39:32 PM
- well, i guess the forms 'toata', 'toţii', 'toatele' are used in the cases when this pronoun stands alone (without a noun) and the definite article is required (e.g. some situations with preposition 'cu' or with possessive pronouns) right ?

i got another question - what is 'toatea' ?