вопрос -

tychon Tuesday 31st of May 2005 04:14:05 PM
вопрос - I have a question about verb nominalization. In an online dictionary I encountered the phrase Без перевода, which I'm fairly certain means without translation.

I noticed that they took the stem of переводить and added -a. Am I on the right track? What other forms are there? I flipped through my book and couldn't find anything right off about nominalization, but maybe I just missed it.

Anya Tuesday 31st of May 2005 04:29:07 PM
- Interesting Tychon,
I think you may mean "nounization" ... although I don't know if that really exists grammatically. :p

What you've encountered here is simply a case ending for the noun перевод - meaning translation.

So... without translation: без перевода
Genitive case, and answers the question: без чего?

tychon Tuesday 31st of May 2005 06:03:17 PM
- Nounization?

No, nominalization, the nominalized form of (to) nominalize. Or to change a part of speech into a noun by way of a suffix. Also works for clauses into noun phrases.

Although it may not exist in Russian, if that's what you meant. Heh.

Hmm, I guess I should just stick to reading my grammar book some more before pondering on such things, haha.

Thanks for the info.

sandman Tuesday 31st of May 2005 08:35:27 PM
- many of the verbs become nouns when they get the suffix 'n' and the ending 'ie' (in nom.). this is very close to that in german - 'lesen - das Lesen' (and they are neuter in russian too), or in romanian 'a vedea - vedere' etc.
as a noun they usually mean the process of doing the corresponding action.
such as:
читать (to read) - чтение
лечить (to treat) - лечение
лежать (to lie) - лежание
etc.
but in many cases you cannot do that. it is the case when there's a 'normal' noun with the same stem, which describes such action.
such as:
лететь (to fly) - полет ('летение' doesn't exists, but there is 'летание' for летать )
свистеть (to whistle) - свист (there's no 'свистение')
there are also some verbs for which it seems to be ok, but they're very rarely used, maybe in some special texts.

there's also a variant with the suffix 'k' and the ending 'a' (in nom.):
строить (to build) - стройка (строение is completely different it's a building, not the process, although from построить - построение means the process, and постройка is a kind of a building)

some verbs have nouns built in both these ways, but one of them is considered low colloquial:
гладить (to iron) - глажение (глажка is low)
жарить (to fry) - жарение (жарка is low)

there is also other group - nouns that end with '-ёж':
балдеть (to feel pleasure) - балдёж
галдеть (to clamour) - галдёж

seems this is a pretty complex subject, with lots of nuances.
hope i helped a bit.

sandman Wednesday 01st of June 2005 10:59:34 AM
- well, about 'перевод'
in fact the stem here is 'вод' (lead, drive, guide)
'пере' is a prefix, means 'over-', 'trans-' etc.
in 'переводить' there was added a suffix - 'ит', which is peculiar to verbs.
the mechanism here is the same as i described above, see 'to whistle' - свистеть - свист. here the noun is just a naked stem.

btw 'переводить' besides of 'to translate' means 'to transfer', 'to lead across' etc.

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Anya	Tuesday 31st of May 2005 04:29:07 PM
- Interesting Tychon, I think you may mean "nounization" ... although I don't know if that really exists grammatically. :p What you've encountered here is simply a case ending for the noun перевод - meaning translation. So... without translation: без перевода Genitive case, and answers the question: без чего?

tychon	Tuesday 31st of May 2005 06:03:17 PM
- Nounization? No, nominalization, the nominalized form of (to) nominalize. Or to change a part of speech into a noun by way of a suffix. Also works for clauses into noun phrases. Although it may not exist in Russian, if that's what you meant. Heh. Hmm, I guess I should just stick to reading my grammar book some more before pondering on such things, haha. Thanks for the info.