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DuffieTuesday 28th of December 2004 05:25:37 AM
Regional Pronunciation - I didn't know if this has been suggested, but (I think that's Maryam on the pronunciation guides) I think we could present the different pronunciations; I was talking to a friend of mine raised in Mexico and he has a terrible time understanding people from Spain, maybe we should have both styles in pronunciation? Just because I was thinking that, for instance, someone going to Mexico or South America (Save Argentina...sorry, but Argentinan Spanish is farrr too out there) learning Spanish will have enough trouble as it is communicating in the new language, let alone differences in dialects.

I feel like Martha Stewart now. Oh well :-D
GoranBcnTuesday 28th of December 2004 05:54:21 AM
Differences - The differences between the Spanish of Spain and the Spanish of Latin America are something like the differences between British English and American English. I don't think it's true that your Mexican friend "has a terrible time understanding people from Spain" There are some differences more in the spoken language than in writing, but they aren't so extreme that you can't learn the differences as you need them.
If your pronunciation is reasonably good, whether your accent is Castilian or Mexican or Bolivian, you will be understood. Latin Americans watch movies from Spain, and Spaniards watch Latin American telenovelas (soap operas), so you can be assured the differences aren't all that that great. You might want to avoid slang or extreme colloquialisms, but standard educated Spanish is understood anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world.

Here, however, are some of the differences you may notice:

Pronunciation: One of the main differences is that many Spaniards often pronounce the z and the c before i or e like the "th" in "thin," while many Latin Americans pronounce it the same as the s. Also, speakers in some areas (Argentina in particular) often pronounce the ll and y like the "s" in "measure." In some areas, you will hear speakers drop s sounds, so está sounds like etá. In some areas, the j sounds like the "ch" in "loch" (difficult for many native English speakers to master), while in others it sounds like the English "h." In some areas, the l and the r at the end of a word sound alike. If you listen to a variety of spoken Spanish, you'll notice other differences as well, particularly in the rhythm in which it is spoken.

Grammar: Two of the biggest differences, each worth a lesson in itself, are the leísmo of Spain and the use of the pronoun vos in some areas instead of tú. Another major difference is that vosotros is often used as the plural of tú (the singular familiar "you") in Spain, while in Latin American ustedes is usually used. There are also numerous small differences, many involving colloquial usage.

Vocabulary: Other than slang, probably the biggest class of vocabulary differences you'll come across is in the use of suffixes. A lápiz is a pencil or crayon everywhere, but a lapicero is a pencil holder in some areas, a mechanical pencil in others, and a ball-point pen in still others. There are also fair number of blatant differences, such as a computer being an ordenador in Spain but a computadora in Latin America, but they are probably no more common than the British-American differences. Of course, every area also has its quirky words. For example, a Chinese restaurant in Chile or Peru is called a chifa, but you won't run across that word in many other places.
DuffieTuesday 28th of December 2004 06:05:38 AM
- [quote]Originally posted by GoranBcn


The differences between the Spanish of Spain and the Spanish of Latin America are something like the differences between British English and American English. I don't think it's true that your Mexican friend "has a terrible time understanding people from Spain" There are some differences more in the spoken language than in writing, but they aren't so extreme that you can't learn the differences as you need them.
If your pronunciation is reasonably good, whether your accent is Castilian or Mexican or Bolivian, you will be understood. Latin Americans watch movies from Spain, and Spaniards watch Latin American telenovelas (soap operas), so you can be assured the differences aren't all that that great. You might want to avoid slang or extreme colloquialisms, but standard educated Spanish is understood anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world.

Here, however, are some of the differences you may notice:

Pronunciation: One of the main differences is that many Spaniards often pronounce the z and the c before i or e like the "th" in "thin," while many Latin Americans pronounce it the same as the s. Also, speakers in some areas (Argentina in particular) often pronounce the ll and y like the "s" in "measure." In some areas, you will hear speakers drop s sounds, so está sounds like etá. In some areas, the j sounds like the "ch" in "loch" (difficult for many native English speakers to master), while in others it sounds like the English "h." In some areas, the l and the r at the end of a word sound alike. If you listen to a variety of spoken Spanish, you'll notice other differences as well, particularly in the rhythm in which it is spoken.

Grammar: Two of the biggest differences, each worth a lesson in itself, are the leísmo of Spain and the use of the pronoun vos in some areas instead of tú. Another major difference is that vosotros is often used as the plural of tú (the singular familiar "you") in Spain, while in Latin American ustedes is usually used. There are also numerous small differences, many involving colloquial usage.

Vocabulary: Other than slang, probably the biggest class of vocabulary differences you'll come across is in the use of suffixes. A lápiz is a pencil or crayon everywhere, but a lapicero is a pencil holder in some areas, a mechanical pencil in others, and a ball-point pen in still others. There are also fair number of blatant differences, such as a computer being an ordenador in Spain but a computadora in Latin America, but they are probably no more common than the British-American differences. Of course, every area also has its quirky words. For example, a Chinese restaurant in Chile or Peru is called a chifa, but you won't run across that word in many other places.[/quote]

I guess you're right, he's quite the dramatist anyway. Just a thought for the desperate souls trying to learn Travel language. I know the differences you were talking about, I've spoken with Mexicans and Spaniards loads of times. Just a thought. THen again, I'm the kid that puts syrup on scrambled eggs and ketchup on bread, so maybe my judgment is poor :-P
totoTuesday 28th of December 2004 11:27:13 AM
Spanish - [quote]Originally posted by Duffie


[quote]Originally posted by GoranBcn


The differences between the Spanish of Spain and the Spanish of Latin America are something like the differences between British English and American English. I don't think it's true that your Mexican friend "has a terrible time understanding people from Spain" There are some differences more in the spoken language than in writing, but they aren't so extreme that you can't learn the differences as you need them.
If your pronunciation is reasonably good, whether your accent is Castilian or Mexican or Bolivian, you will be understood. Latin Americans watch movies from Spain, and Spaniards watch Latin American telenovelas (soap operas), so you can be assured the differences aren't all that that great. You might want to avoid slang or extreme colloquialisms, but standard educated Spanish is understood anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world.

Here, however, are some of the differences you may notice:

Pronunciation: One of the main differences is that many Spaniards often pronounce the z and the c before i or e like the "th" in "thin," while many Latin Americans pronounce it the same as the s. Also, speakers in some areas (Argentina in particular) often pronounce the ll and y like the "s" in "measure." In some areas, you will hear speakers drop s sounds, so está sounds like etá. In some areas, the j sounds like the "ch" in "loch" (difficult for many native English speakers to master), while in others it sounds like the English "h." In some areas, the l and the r at the end of a word sound alike. If you listen to a variety of spoken Spanish, you'll notice other differences as well, particularly in the rhythm in which it is spoken.

Grammar: Two of the biggest differences, each worth a lesson in itself, are the leísmo of Spain and the use of the pronoun vos in some areas instead of tú. Another major difference is that vosotros is often used as the plural of tú (the singular familiar "you") in Spain, while in Latin American ustedes is usually used. There are also numerous small differences, many involving colloquial usage.

Vocabulary: Other than slang, probably the biggest class of vocabulary differences you'll come across is in the use of suffixes. A lápiz is a pencil or crayon everywhere, but a lapicero is a pencil holder in some areas, a mechanical pencil in others, and a ball-point pen in still others. There are also fair number of blatant differences, such as a computer being an ordenador in Spain but a computadora in Latin America, but they are probably no more common than the British-American differences. Of course, every area also has its quirky words. For example, a Chinese restaurant in Chile or Peru is called a chifa, but you won't run across that word in many other places.[/quote]

I guess you're right, he's quite the dramatist anyway. Just a thought for the desperate souls trying to learn Travel language. I know the differences you were talking about, I've spoken with Mexicans and Spaniards loads of times. Just a thought. THen again, I'm the kid that puts syrup on scrambled eggs and ketchup on bread, so maybe my judgment is poor :-P[/quote]



i wold like to add a note to the Spanish from Spain and the Spanish from Mexico, I was born and raise in Mexico and now I live in USA, I have friends from Spain and I dont have any problems understanding them, they might use some words we dont use in Mexico but I do understand what they mean, maybe your friend needs an ear check up.
BrancoTuesday 01st of February 2005 08:56:42 PM
- Hi,
I have a question about the way Spaniards pronounce sounds as 'z' and 'c' as English 'th'. How do for example people on television pronounce words with these sounds, do they use their own form of pronunciation (their own dialect) or do they use some kind of standard Spanish?
MaryamTuesday 15th of February 2005 08:55:20 PM
- We have the national tv channels in spanish (z pronounced like th) and we have the regional tv channels (other languages and dialects, among them catalan, valencian, without using the th sound.... basque (they use it in their own language...) and other places like the south of spain where depending on the province they may or may not use them. But the official standard spanish uses the z sound everywhere.

[quote]Originally posted by Branco


Hi,
I have a question about the way Spaniards pronounce sounds as 'z' and 'c' as English 'th'. How do for example people on television pronounce words with these sounds, do they use their own form of pronunciation (their own dialect) or do they use some kind of standard Spanish?[/quote]
TommSunday 20th of February 2005 07:15:35 PM
Hola a todos! - I'd like to add something about "Standard Spanish" broadcast throught national TV channels. TV workers, generally, try with more or less emphasis and with more or less success to hide their own accent. Sometimes I get surprised when I realize that this showman or that News presenter I've been listening to for a long time is, for example, from Galicia or Andalucía (regions with a strong accent).
In this "Standard Spanish" they try to pronounce the sound of the "z" (in some Spanish dialects, as in Latin America, it is pronounces as if "s"), and many (overall in formal speech) try to say words always with a "d" ("cansado" instead of "cansao", Granada instead of "Graná").

Some mistakes are typical of Central Spain, but sometimes heard as Standard Spanish :( for example:
- the "leísmo" and the "laísmo"
- the 2nd person past in "-es" instead of in "-e" ("comistes" and not "comiste")
- the last "d" of a word pronounced as "z" or even not pronounced at all (Madrid > Madriz, Madrí) (In Catalonia and the Valencian Community it is pronounced "Madrit", due to the influence of their own language over Spanish)
- and lately the mispronounce of the sound "s" as "j" before an occlusive ("loj cajcos" instead of "los cascos")(Our Defence Minister is always being laughed at because of this pronuntiation, but there are many others nowadays in the TV business who talk like him)

The battle is lost with the sounds "ll" and "y". "Cayó" and "calló" are (or should)not be pronounced as if they had the same sound, but they are in almost the whole Spain. In other countries TV and radio workers must practice and use those difficult sounds of their languages which are "in danger of extinction", but in Spain it isn't like that, and the sound of the "ll" is sentenced.

Enhorabuena a Maryam y Goran por llevar adelante este foro sobre el español. Intentaré ayudaros a menudo, aunque ya veis que no me explico demasiado bien...

Tomi
GoranBcnMonday 21st of February 2005 04:11:04 AM
- Hola Tomm,

Gracias por tu intervención y por ayudarnos con este foro. Por cierto ni en Cataluña ni en la comunidad valenciana pronunciamos Madrid como "Madriz". Creo que sólo lo hacen en Madrid. ;)
En Cataluña el típico error de los catalanes es usar el verbo HABER en plural. Por ejemplo: "Habían muchas cosas" porque en catalán esa forma de usar el verbo "haber" se puede permitir aunque tampoco es correcta. Otros errores pueden ser debidos al bilingüismo; la gente habla en castellano pensando en catalán y viceversa. :)
Otros fallos son, como tú bien has mencionado, añadir una S en "¿Qué hicistes ayer? en vez de ¿Qué hiciste ayer? O lo que menos me gusta oír es cuando alguien usa incorrectamente el imperativo de un verbo reflexivo. Por ejemplo "Fijaros" en vez de "Fijaos".
Hay más pero ahora mismo no me acuerdo, de todas formas este foro no va de esto. :)

Un saludo

Goran