Dutch Hello Helpful People... I Need Help With Some Confusing Dutch Grammar...

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Friendship Tuesday 29th of November 2005 12:06:52 AM
Hello helpful people... - Hello everyone,
I am an American man who is new to this website. I have been teaching myself Dutch grammar, and can now understand most of it. However, there are a few areas in my "Essential Dutch Grammar" book that really get me confused. The book lists my "problem" areas as Possessives and Possession, Demonstrative Adjectives and Pronouns, and Personal Pronouns. When I reviewed this material yeasterday on dutchgrammar.com, I got very, very confused. I don't know where to begin...
1) When do I uses hun/hen/ze?
2) When do I use dit, dat, deze, and die?
3) When do I use abbreviated words like:('k,je,ie,ze,'t.me,je,'m,d'r,'r,'t,we,je,ze,je,ze)for the personal pronouns,or (m'n,je,z'n,d'r,je,d'r) for the possessive pronouns?
I know alot of Dutch words, now, but I find that I can hardly speak a simple sentances like "This is mine" "This is not your pen, this is my pen", "This is their pen","I am giving the pen to them","She gave her pen to him","He gave his pen to her",etc....
Also, I am confused, while constructing or reading long complicated Dutch sentances, when I use ZIJ or HIJ for he and she(the main subjects?), and when I use ZE or HEI(?)(the secondary subjects?)?
Since I am not a linguist, I thank God for the fact that their are helpful Dutch speaking folks on this forum board who are willing to help beginning Dutch students like me master the beautiful Dutch language. I know a lot of "fragments", but I cannot yet think in or speak in Dutch. Two nights ago, I was finally able to think in very simple Dutch sentances, and speak in very simple Dutch languages. It was as if all my hours and hours of hard Dutch language studying over the past year and a half had finally begun "comming together". Luckily, now, I finally have found a few native Dutch speakers at the church I attand on Sundays, with whom I can converse in Dutch. I must rejoice in small beginnings, while hoping for an "avalanche" of fast Dutch linguistic gains to come. I study Dutch for hours every day, and thanks to the info on this forum, I have now discoverd an excellent Dutch language site at www.nt2examen.nl. Now I can listen to Dutch songs, slow Dutch radio, and Dutch stories. Thank you for reading this post, and thank you everyone for being active members of this Dutch language forum. It is a true blessing for us beginning students to have patient and knowledgable teachers to help us to learn the beautiful Dutch language...

Mathieu Tuesday 29th of November 2005 01:02:44 AM
- About the pronouns, good you at least noticed there is such a distinction, and it seems you pretty much got your inventory complete. It's something that hard to learn from a book I think, so your questions are very understandable. I have been discussing this before, I've just made a seperate topic for it [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=11227][b]here[/b][/url]. If you have any futher questions regarding that one, just post there and I'll answer/modify things.

hmm I think this whole pronoun thing was pretty much all you were asking, right? :D If there's anything about grammar that's not about pronouns, you can continue about that in this topic here :)

iandominicp77 Tuesday 29th of November 2005 05:37:12 AM
- goed gedaan Teup..

Nostromo Tuesday 29th of November 2005 08:40:23 PM
- And there was I thinking that those little Dutch-speaking church communities in the US where just figments of encyclopaedist's imaginations! You folks are really there!:D Keep it up dude:)

Friendship Wednesday 30th of November 2005 01:48:40 AM
Hello helpful people... - Thank you Teup(and Ian and Nostromo...),
The table that you referred me to, which you made up, is very, very helpful to me. As you mentioned, for me, this information in that table is the hardest aspect of Dutch grammar and usage for me to teach myself. If I had a Dutch teacher here in the states who could constantly go over this material and use it in various sentances, giving me homework, reviewing my homework, and answering my questions, I would be able to master this information very quickly. As it is, at this point in time, I should follow your advice and simply continue reading/listening to Dutch, follow my intuition,and let my knowledge and useage of this material improve naturally. It will take me some time, but I know that I will eventually be able to know and use all of the information. I am glad that I am not the only student who has some difficulties with this material. Tot ziens...

Mathieu Thursday 01st of December 2005 02:23:10 AM
- I'm glad it's helpful, you're welcome :) Yeah it's sort of silly to really learn this by heart right from a table (especially for people unlike you who don't have any experience at all), but once you acquire it out there, and you review the table again, I'm sure it'll all fall in place :) Might be handy when you're suddenly just not really sure anymore which one was which and you have to look it up, for example.

Phrasebase Archive
	Friendship	Tuesday 29th of November 2005 12:06:52 AM
	Hello helpful people... - Hello everyone, I am an American man who is new to this website. I have been teaching myself Dutch grammar, and can now understand most of it. However, there are a few areas in my "Essential Dutch Grammar" book that really get me confused. The book lists my "problem" areas as Possessives and Possession, Demonstrative Adjectives and Pronouns, and Personal Pronouns. When I reviewed this material yeasterday on dutchgrammar.com, I got very, very confused. I don't know where to begin... 1) When do I uses hun/hen/ze? 2) When do I use dit, dat, deze, and die? 3) When do I use abbreviated words like:('k,je,ie,ze,'t.me,je,'m,d'r,'r,'t,we,je,ze,je,ze)for the personal pronouns,or (m'n,je,z'n,d'r,je,d'r) for the possessive pronouns? I know alot of Dutch words, now, but I find that I can hardly speak a simple sentances like "This is mine" "This is not your pen, this is my pen", "This is their pen","I am giving the pen to them","She gave her pen to him","He gave his pen to her",etc.... Also, I am confused, while constructing or reading long complicated Dutch sentances, when I use ZIJ or HIJ for he and she(the main subjects?), and when I use ZE or HEI(?)(the secondary subjects?)? Since I am not a linguist, I thank God for the fact that their are helpful Dutch speaking folks on this forum board who are willing to help beginning Dutch students like me master the beautiful Dutch language. I know a lot of "fragments", but I cannot yet think in or speak in Dutch. Two nights ago, I was finally able to think in very simple Dutch sentances, and speak in very simple Dutch languages. It was as if all my hours and hours of hard Dutch language studying over the past year and a half had finally begun "comming together". Luckily, now, I finally have found a few native Dutch speakers at the church I attand on Sundays, with whom I can converse in Dutch. I must rejoice in small beginnings, while hoping for an "avalanche" of fast Dutch linguistic gains to come. I study Dutch for hours every day, and thanks to the info on this forum, I have now discoverd an excellent Dutch language site at www.nt2examen.nl. Now I can listen to Dutch songs, slow Dutch radio, and Dutch stories. Thank you for reading this post, and thank you everyone for being active members of this Dutch language forum. It is a true blessing for us beginning students to have patient and knowledgable teachers to help us to learn the beautiful Dutch language...
	Mathieu	Tuesday 29th of November 2005 01:02:44 AM
	- About the pronouns, good you at least noticed there is such a distinction, and it seems you pretty much got your inventory complete. It's something that hard to learn from a book I think, so your questions are very understandable. I have been discussing this before, I've just made a seperate topic for it [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=11227][b]here[/b][/url]. If you have any futher questions regarding that one, just post there and I'll answer/modify things. hmm I think this whole pronoun thing was pretty much all you were asking, right? :D If there's anything about grammar that's not about pronouns, you can continue about that in this topic here :)
	iandominicp77	Tuesday 29th of November 2005 05:37:12 AM
	- goed gedaan Teup..
	Nostromo	Tuesday 29th of November 2005 08:40:23 PM
	- And there was I thinking that those little Dutch-speaking church communities in the US where just figments of encyclopaedist's imaginations! You folks are really there!:D Keep it up dude:)
	Friendship	Wednesday 30th of November 2005 01:48:40 AM
	Hello helpful people... - Thank you Teup(and Ian and Nostromo...), The table that you referred me to, which you made up, is very, very helpful to me. As you mentioned, for me, this information in that table is the hardest aspect of Dutch grammar and usage for me to teach myself. If I had a Dutch teacher here in the states who could constantly go over this material and use it in various sentances, giving me homework, reviewing my homework, and answering my questions, I would be able to master this information very quickly. As it is, at this point in time, I should follow your advice and simply continue reading/listening to Dutch, follow my intuition,and let my knowledge and useage of this material improve naturally. It will take me some time, but I know that I will eventually be able to know and use all of the information. I am glad that I am not the only student who has some difficulties with this material. Tot ziens...
	Mathieu	Thursday 01st of December 2005 02:23:10 AM
	- I'm glad it's helpful, you're welcome :) Yeah it's sort of silly to really learn this by heart right from a table (especially for people unlike you who don't have any experience at all), but once you acquire it out there, and you review the table again, I'm sure it'll all fall in place :) Might be handy when you're suddenly just not really sure anymore which one was which and you have to look it up, for example.