Dutch I Need Some Ideas

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esta Monday 08th of August 2005 06:06:56 PM
I need some ideas - I am starting to try and learn dutch but i have no idea how to do it.I have never really learned a langauge before so i'd really appreciate it if you put down what worked/works best for you. Also I have ME (probably doesn't mean much to most of you) which means that I cant concentrate for too long at a time. this does make it a bit harder. thanks a lot, Esther

esta Monday 08th of August 2005 06:11:59 PM
forgot to add... - is it a good i dea to learn more than 1 languge at a time and if so any ideas for a good second/third language

Daan Tuesday 09th of August 2005 12:34:02 AM
- There's quite some interesting lecture on how everybody studies languages - there are as many approaches as there are people ;)

You can find a topic where PBians posted their approach right here: http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=372

Even if you have ME, you hopefully will find language learning a nice thing to do because it can both give you personal satisfaction and enlarge your ability to communicate with new people!

Personally, I don't have any experience with studying more than one language at a time, so I cannot really answer that question. I'm sure that the omniscient sagacious Teup will have an answer, though :D

Mathieu Tuesday 09th of August 2005 02:58:37 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Daan[/i]
Personally, I don't have any experience with studying more than one language at a time, so I cannot really answer that question. I'm sure that the omniscient sagacious Teup will have an answer, though :D[/quote]

Yeah, two words on that one;

No idea :D

I'm an uhm.. focussed person, like yourself :)

esta Tuesday 09th of August 2005 02:33:38 PM
- OK I'll "stay focussed" ;) i'm taking on board all ideas at the moment till i till i work out what works best for me.

nostromo Friday 19th of August 2005 08:51:31 PM
- There is only one 's' in focused...

Mathieu Friday 19th of August 2005 09:53:57 PM
- Thanks :)
At least I fooled 1 :D

Daan Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:15:02 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by nostromo[/i]
There is only one 's' in focused...[/quote]
Hmm...odd, in school they taught me that in American English there is only one 's' - in British English there are two.
Other examples would be "traveler" - "traveller" or "counselor" - "counsellor" according to my textbook :)

Mathieu Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:41:37 AM
- First time I hear about that but I take your word for it :D I suck at it anyway, even in Dutch.. Monniken, handvatten.. how's "kennisen" spelled anyway? Like this?

Axystos Saturday 20th of August 2005 05:52:30 AM
- "kennissen" ;)

Daan Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:00:15 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Teup[/i]
First time I hear about that but I take your word for it :D [/quote]
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=focussed

nostromo Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:31:45 PM
- Well, this is not an English forum but... In my oldest copy of the OED (Oxford English...), there is the double 's' spelling, but there is also the older spelling of words like: connexion (in place of connection), Gaol (rather than 'Jail'). I use both. The double 's' in focussed, has dropped out of general use, even though it is still possible.
Finally, the reliance on patterns: traveller/traveler etc., always breaks down at some point. The stem of: Concussion, is not 'concus', but 'concuss', whilst focused (or focussed) is 'focus' rather than 'focuss'. I've learned that this is so especially in Dutch. However, I'm not the boss of English and I can be taught new things if I am wrong...

Mathieu Saturday 20th of August 2005 04:07:06 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Axystos[/i]

"kennissen" ;)[/quote]

But the stress is on the first syllable, like in "haviken".. hmm, maybe that rule simply doesn't apply to fricative sounds like the 's' or something, at least it's 262.000 - 11.300 at Google for the double 's'...

Edit: Ah, here it is: http://taalunieversum.org/taal/advies/vraag/222/

"de laatste lettergreep is -el, -em, -en, -er, -es, -et, -ik of -it." - that's just ridiculous, well, good to see the grammatici are having fun :p

Edit2: Heh, just read the extended description:

[quote]Krijgt echter die laatste lettergreep niet de klemtoon, dan wordt de desbetreffende klinker meestal uitgesproken als de sjwa [ə]. Nu geldt in het algemeen dat we na een sjwa de medeklinker niet verdubbelen: behalve, geval, bevel, geloof, onbehouwen enzovoorts.

Daarom schrijven we dus ook artikelen, middelen, wapenen, bestuurderen en dergelijke. Dat geeft zelden problemen. Die problemen ontstaan vooral als het woord in kwestie niet op -el, -en of -er uitgaat, maar op -em, -es, -et, -ik of -it. Voorbeelden daarvan zijn: vademen, dreumesen, lobbesen, lemmeten, bangeriken, haviken, kanunniken, monniken, viezeriken, kieviten en dergelijke.[/quote]

From that point of view it's completely unlogical why 'kennissen' should be spelled with a double 's', as opposed to the examples.. (also I don't understand 'kieviten' as the 'i' isn't pronounced schwa). Pretty offtopic, but it's the Dutch forum anyway :D

Phrasebase Archive
	esta	Monday 08th of August 2005 06:06:56 PM
	I need some ideas - I am starting to try and learn dutch but i have no idea how to do it.I have never really learned a langauge before so i'd really appreciate it if you put down what worked/works best for you. Also I have ME (probably doesn't mean much to most of you) which means that I cant concentrate for too long at a time. this does make it a bit harder. thanks a lot, Esther
	esta	Monday 08th of August 2005 06:11:59 PM
	forgot to add... - is it a good i dea to learn more than 1 languge at a time and if so any ideas for a good second/third language
	Daan	Tuesday 09th of August 2005 12:34:02 AM
	- There's quite some interesting lecture on how everybody studies languages - there are as many approaches as there are people ;) You can find a topic where PBians posted their approach right here: http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=372 Even if you have ME, you hopefully will find language learning a nice thing to do because it can both give you personal satisfaction and enlarge your ability to communicate with new people! Personally, I don't have any experience with studying more than one language at a time, so I cannot really answer that question. I'm sure that the omniscient sagacious Teup will have an answer, though :D
	Mathieu	Tuesday 09th of August 2005 02:58:37 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by Daan[/i] Personally, I don't have any experience with studying more than one language at a time, so I cannot really answer that question. I'm sure that the omniscient sagacious Teup will have an answer, though :D[/quote] Yeah, two words on that one; No idea :D I'm an uhm.. focussed person, like yourself :)
	esta	Tuesday 09th of August 2005 02:33:38 PM
	- OK I'll "stay focussed" ;) i'm taking on board all ideas at the moment till i till i work out what works best for me.
	nostromo	Friday 19th of August 2005 08:51:31 PM
	- There is only one 's' in focused...
	Mathieu	Friday 19th of August 2005 09:53:57 PM
	- Thanks :) At least I fooled 1 :D
	Daan	Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:15:02 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by nostromo[/i] There is only one 's' in focused...[/quote] Hmm...odd, in school they taught me that in American English there is only one 's' - in British English there are two. Other examples would be "traveler" - "traveller" or "counselor" - "counsellor" according to my textbook :)
	Mathieu	Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:41:37 AM
	- First time I hear about that but I take your word for it :D I suck at it anyway, even in Dutch.. Monniken, handvatten.. how's "kennisen" spelled anyway? Like this?
	Axystos	Saturday 20th of August 2005 05:52:30 AM
	- "kennissen" ;)
	Daan	Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:00:15 PM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by Teup[/i] First time I hear about that but I take your word for it :D [/quote] http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=focussed
	nostromo	Saturday 20th of August 2005 03:31:45 PM
	- Well, this is not an English forum but... In my oldest copy of the OED (Oxford English...), there is the double 's' spelling, but there is also the older spelling of words like: connexion (in place of connection), Gaol (rather than 'Jail'). I use both. The double 's' in focussed, has dropped out of general use, even though it is still possible. Finally, the reliance on patterns: traveller/traveler etc., always breaks down at some point. The stem of: Concussion, is not 'concus', but 'concuss', whilst focused (or focussed) is 'focus' rather than 'focuss'. I've learned that this is so especially in Dutch. However, I'm not the boss of English and I can be taught new things if I am wrong...
	Mathieu	Saturday 20th of August 2005 04:07:06 PM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by Axystos[/i] "kennissen" ;)[/quote] But the stress is on the first syllable, like in "haviken".. hmm, maybe that rule simply doesn't apply to fricative sounds like the 's' or something, at least it's 262.000 - 11.300 at Google for the double 's'... Edit: Ah, here it is: http://taalunieversum.org/taal/advies/vraag/222/ "de laatste lettergreep is -el, -em, -en, -er, -es, -et, -ik of -it." - that's just ridiculous, well, good to see the grammatici are having fun :p Edit2: Heh, just read the extended description: [quote]Krijgt echter die laatste lettergreep niet de klemtoon, dan wordt de desbetreffende klinker meestal uitgesproken als de sjwa [ə]. Nu geldt in het algemeen dat we na een sjwa de medeklinker niet verdubbelen: behalve, geval, bevel, geloof, onbehouwen enzovoorts. Daarom schrijven we dus ook artikelen, middelen, wapenen, bestuurderen en dergelijke. Dat geeft zelden problemen. Die problemen ontstaan vooral als het woord in kwestie niet op -el, -en of -er uitgaat, maar op -em, -es, -et, -ik of -it. Voorbeelden daarvan zijn: vademen, dreumesen, lobbesen, lemmeten, bangeriken, haviken, kanunniken, monniken, viezeriken, kieviten en dergelijke.[/quote] From that point of view it's completely unlogical why 'kennissen' should be spelled with a double 's', as opposed to the examples.. (also I don't understand 'kieviten' as the 'i' isn't pronounced schwa). Pretty offtopic, but it's the Dutch forum anyway :D