Dutch The Uses Of "er" Does This Word Mean "there"

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Friendship Sunday 29th of January 2006 08:32:48 AM
The uses of "er" - Hello my Dutch forum "friends" :D,
I read in a "teach yourself Dutch" book, that this little word to occurs fairly frequently in Dutch, but I could not really understand the explanation it gave of the several uses of "er" in Dutch :(...To make things more difficult, I know that "er" can be combined with other words...
If someone has a minute, could they please tell me a few things about "er", and when/how natives use it? I am sure that it will help other students as well...I apologize if this topic was discussed last year in a topic. I have not yet finished reading all of last year's Dutch forum postings...
Heel erg bedankt(in advance...:D)...

Daan Sunday 29th of January 2006 07:32:06 PM
- My posts are by no means as elucidating as Teup's, but here's a preliminary answer.

In the clauses "Er is" and "Er zijn", its meaning is close to "There" in the English clauses "There is" and "There are". For example, one might say:

1) Er zijn veel mensen. (There are many people).
2) Er is een groot feest. (There is a big party).
Judging from your profile, you also speak French. "Il y a" means the same as this construction :)

It can also be used to refer to a previously mentioned entity:
1) Ik heb er drie gekocht. (I've bought three of THEM).
2) Ik heb er niets over gehoord. (I haven't heard anything about IT).
In this context, its meaning is similar to "y" and "en" in French :)

Finally, it is used for creating passive sentences, but I'll leave that one to Mr Prevocalische Swjadeletie ;)

Mathieu Monday 30th of January 2006 05:49:38 PM
- Well, I haven't got such illumuminating things to tell really :p I think it will take an advanced student to explain this properly, because for a native it's very hard to understand what the system or the problem with it is. But here it goes.. [b](warning: you will have to study this part of Dutch syntax several times, it might take quite long. In fact, I have never known a foreigner that didn't slip on the odd occation when it came to this. Don't worry if you don't understand, it just adds a little to your understanding)[/b]

First of all, I want to point out the place 'er' has as a pronoun. Look at this:
English:
this - it - that
here - there - there

Dutch:
dit - het - dat
hier - er - daar

So, English doesn't have a way to distinguish 'there' in the sense of "over there" from "present", as a general thing. If you say: "You're not there" you'll mean that somebody is not present rather than that somebody is not at a specific location, and thus in Dutch you'd get "Je bent er niet" rather than "je bent daar niet", meaning "you're not over there". (As you know some German: German also doesn't distinguish. But, instead of having the word for "there" as the ambiguous one, they have the word "it" ("es") to cover both "it" and that other meaning ("es gibt..", "there is..", "er is..")

OK. So.. now some applications. Just what I can think of, I'm not taking this from books or anything so it won't be complete or anything and if something doesn't make sense, just ask.

1. As Expletive.
'Er' is the subject of a passive phrase:

"Er is geen verschil" - "There is no difference"
"Er wordt gedanst" - "There is dancing going on"

2.As doubled subject.
'er' can be the subject of a phrase simultaneously with another constituent:

"Wie heeft er een potlood?" - "Who has ('there') a pencil?"
"Gisteren at er iemand een boteram" - "Yesterday somebody ate ('there') a sandwitch"

3. As a direct object:
Whenever you'd say "it" after a preposition in English, in Dutch it'll move to in front of it and turn into "er":

"I have been waiting for it"
*"Ik heb gewacht op het", *"Ik heb op het gewacht" (wrong!)
"Ik heb [b]erop[/b] gewacht"

"I am fond of it"
*"Ik hou van het" (wrong!)
"Ik hou [b]ervan[/b]

'er' need not attach to a preposition, as in Daan's example:

"I've heard nothing about it"
*"Ik heb niets gehoord over het", *"Ik heb niets over het gehoord" (wrong!)
"Ik heb [b]er[/b] niets over gehoord."

Those are the applications I can think of right now. But I have been told there are in fact 5...
Anyway, by the time you'll get to master these, you will also understand what you have to do to point "here" and "over there" - then you just swap "er" for "here" or "there":

1. As Expletive.
"Hier/daar is geen verschil" - "Over here/there, there is no difference"
"Hier/daar wordt gedanst" - "Over here/there, there is dancing going on"

("er wordt hier/daar"... also good)

2.As doubled subject.
"Wie heeft hier een potlood?" - "Who around here has a pencil?"
"Gisteren at hier/daar iemand een boterham" - "Yesterday somebody ate a sandwitch over here/there)

("...er hier/daar ..." also good)

3. As a direct object:

"Ik heb hierop/daarop gewacht" - "I have been waiting for this/that"
"Ik hou hiervan/daarvan" - "I am fond of this/that"
"Ik heb hier/daar niets over gehoord." - "I've heard nothing about this/that"

So we've now discussed how to say "it", "this" and "that" as objects after prepositions; then they turn into "there" ("er"), "here" ("hier") and "there" ("daar"). Two more remain: "what", "something" and "nothing". Dutch remains consequent here and uses "where", "somewhere" and "nowhere":

"Ik wacht erop/hierop/daarop" - "I wait for it/this/that"
"Ik wacht ergens/nergens op" - "I wait for something/nothing"
"Waar wacht ik op?" - "What am I waiting for?"

"Ik hou ervan/hiervan/daarvan" - "I am fond of it/this/that"
"Ik hou ergens/nergens van" - "I'm fond of something/nothing"
"Waar hou ik van?" - "What am I fond of?"

Enough for now :p Further questions, always ask.

Friendship Saturday 04th of February 2006 08:21:20 AM
Many thanks for helping me out... - Thanks guys, for taking the time to help me out by explaining some of the many uses of the word "er" :)...
As I mentioned, I really think that this info. will be very helpful to many students. I do now have a clearer understanding of how it is used, but I sense that my understanding will grow, over time, simply through exposure to the language...
Btw, I do not know any French :)...I just know a little bit of Dutch, and I learned some German as a youth...

Phrasebase Archive
	Friendship	Sunday 29th of January 2006 08:32:48 AM
	The uses of "er" - Hello my Dutch forum "friends" :D, I read in a "teach yourself Dutch" book, that this little word to occurs fairly frequently in Dutch, but I could not really understand the explanation it gave of the several uses of "er" in Dutch :(...To make things more difficult, I know that "er" can be combined with other words... If someone has a minute, could they please tell me a few things about "er", and when/how natives use it? I am sure that it will help other students as well...I apologize if this topic was discussed last year in a topic. I have not yet finished reading all of last year's Dutch forum postings... Heel erg bedankt(in advance...:D)...
	Daan	Sunday 29th of January 2006 07:32:06 PM
	- My posts are by no means as elucidating as Teup's, but here's a preliminary answer. In the clauses "Er is" and "Er zijn", its meaning is close to "There" in the English clauses "There is" and "There are". For example, one might say: 1) Er zijn veel mensen. (There are many people). 2) Er is een groot feest. (There is a big party). Judging from your profile, you also speak French. "Il y a" means the same as this construction :) It can also be used to refer to a previously mentioned entity: 1) Ik heb er drie gekocht. (I've bought three of THEM). 2) Ik heb er niets over gehoord. (I haven't heard anything about IT). In this context, its meaning is similar to "y" and "en" in French :) Finally, it is used for creating passive sentences, but I'll leave that one to Mr Prevocalische Swjadeletie ;)
	Mathieu	Monday 30th of January 2006 05:49:38 PM
	- Well, I haven't got such illumuminating things to tell really :p I think it will take an advanced student to explain this properly, because for a native it's very hard to understand what the system or the problem with it is. But here it goes.. [b](warning: you will have to study this part of Dutch syntax several times, it might take quite long. In fact, I have never known a foreigner that didn't slip on the odd occation when it came to this. Don't worry if you don't understand, it just adds a little to your understanding)[/b] First of all, I want to point out the place 'er' has as a pronoun. Look at this: English: this - it - that here - there - there Dutch: dit - het - dat hier - er - daar So, English doesn't have a way to distinguish 'there' in the sense of "over there" from "present", as a general thing. If you say: "You're not there" you'll mean that somebody is not present rather than that somebody is not at a specific location, and thus in Dutch you'd get "Je bent er niet" rather than "je bent daar niet", meaning "you're not over there". (As you know some German: German also doesn't distinguish. But, instead of having the word for "there" as the ambiguous one, they have the word "it" ("es") to cover both "it" and that other meaning ("es gibt..", "there is..", "er is..") OK. So.. now some applications. Just what I can think of, I'm not taking this from books or anything so it won't be complete or anything and if something doesn't make sense, just ask. 1. As Expletive. 'Er' is the subject of a passive phrase: "Er is geen verschil" - "There is no difference" "Er wordt gedanst" - "There is dancing going on" 2.As doubled subject. 'er' can be the subject of a phrase simultaneously with another constituent: "Wie heeft er een potlood?" - "Who has ('there') a pencil?" "Gisteren at er iemand een boteram" - "Yesterday somebody ate ('there') a sandwitch" 3. As a direct object: Whenever you'd say "it" after a preposition in English, in Dutch it'll move to in front of it and turn into "er": "I have been waiting for it" "Ik heb gewacht op het", "Ik heb op het gewacht" (wrong!) "Ik heb [b]erop[/b] gewacht" "I am fond of it" "Ik hou van het" (wrong!) "Ik hou [b]ervan[/b] 'er' need not attach to a preposition, as in Daan's example: "I've heard nothing about it" "Ik heb niets gehoord over het", *"Ik heb niets over het gehoord" (wrong!) "Ik heb [b]er[/b] niets over gehoord." Those are the applications I can think of right now. But I have been told there are in fact 5... Anyway, by the time you'll get to master these, you will also understand what you have to do to point "here" and "over there" - then you just swap "er" for "here" or "there": 1. As Expletive. "Hier/daar is geen verschil" - "Over here/there, there is no difference" "Hier/daar wordt gedanst" - "Over here/there, there is dancing going on" ("er wordt hier/daar"... also good) 2.As doubled subject. "Wie heeft hier een potlood?" - "Who around here has a pencil?" "Gisteren at hier/daar iemand een boterham" - "Yesterday somebody ate a sandwitch over here/there) ("...er hier/daar ..." also good) 3. As a direct object: "Ik heb hierop/daarop gewacht" - "I have been waiting for this/that" "Ik hou hiervan/daarvan" - "I am fond of this/that" "Ik heb hier/daar niets over gehoord." - "I've heard nothing about this/that" So we've now discussed how to say "it", "this" and "that" as objects after prepositions; then they turn into "there" ("er"), "here" ("hier") and "there" ("daar"). Two more remain: "what", "something" and "nothing". Dutch remains consequent here and uses "where", "somewhere" and "nowhere": "Ik wacht erop/hierop/daarop" - "I wait for it/this/that" "Ik wacht ergens/nergens op" - "I wait for something/nothing" "Waar wacht ik op?" - "What am I waiting for?" "Ik hou ervan/hiervan/daarvan" - "I am fond of it/this/that" "Ik hou ergens/nergens van" - "I'm fond of something/nothing" "Waar hou ik van?" - "What am I fond of?" Enough for now :p Further questions, always ask.
	Friendship	Saturday 04th of February 2006 08:21:20 AM
	Many thanks for helping me out... - Thanks guys, for taking the time to help me out by explaining some of the many uses of the word "er" :)... As I mentioned, I really think that this info. will be very helpful to many students. I do now have a clearer understanding of how it is used, but I sense that my understanding will grow, over time, simply through exposure to the language... Btw, I do not know any French :)...I just know a little bit of Dutch, and I learned some German as a youth...