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UlvenWednesday 16th of February 2005 06:02:41 AM
Why 'American' English? - I realize that when a person is going to live in USA, and they want to buy a dictionary, it is more logical to purchase one geared to the idiosyncracities of USA's usage of English. So, I would deem it apprpopriate for a dictionary to denote that it uses American spellings and includes slang words common in USA. But, I must be honest, I find it inappropriate that America seems to have its own claim on the English language when it really isn't even different enough to qualify as a dialect. The dual flag here on phrasebase denoting the English is just one example. Personally, I find that if the USA flag be used to denote English, so must, say, the Australian flag. Words like 'shiela' (woman), and phrases like 'fair-dinkum'(honest) would not be recognizable elsewhere in the English speaking world. But it would be a gross over-statement to suggest that Australia has its own dialect. I've been to USA, England and Scotland. And, Scotland has far more diferences in usage of the English language from the English than Australia and USA combined. Even so, not even Scotland lays any claim on having its own 'English'. To use an example on the opposite end of the stick. Arabic has long had trouble havintg its dialects classed as seperate languages, despite the fact that an Egytian who moves to Kuwait, Morocco or Syria will not understand the locals. Egyptian will be understood, but only because its media is strongly present in all these lands.
My opinion, which some Americans may be contrary to, is that it is on purely political grounds that USA has claimed and propogated the term 'American English' so widely. I think the over-usage of the term dishonours the truth of the language's form. In short, English is just straight English. It merely differs from nation to nation in slang words and minor spelling variations, not nearly enough to qualify mention internationally. All countries have books of their own slang words and spellings of English, but they don't make claims internationally of a dialect. All this would achieve for foriegners attempting to learn English, is cause them confusion as to which resources to use, and as to where they would be understood if they did put in the study of the language.

What does everyone else think? Do you as an American find this term 'American-English' appropriate? Do you as a member of another English speaking country find it to have legitimate grounds? And, very importantly, do you non-native English speakers find it mis-leading as to whether or not it is the same language that would be understood in every English country you go to?

Thank you.
MarjaWednesday 16th of February 2005 06:16:26 AM
- I have to admit, this is an interesting topic.
Even within our small country that is England there are many dialects that use different terms for the same thing, it happens in a lot of countries. The majority of the words in the language remain the same and so it is classed as the same language. Only when the dialect becomes enough varied to be considered different from the original language could it be classed as separate. Like you point out, I don't think that American english and Australian english vary enough to be separated, they are just more exotic dialects of the English language.
It is a tough one to call, and Im sure people will be debating this for years to come! :) But it is good to find out other people's views on this so as we may get a better picture of the overall situation.
RikardWednesday 16th of February 2005 06:54:14 AM
- When i hear the term american english i think of it as the name of a dialect. not as a language.

Just as well as i think of australian engish, scottish (english) and so on.

But the former is overrepresented because of it's size and political influence.
JohnnyCrowWednesday 16th of February 2005 08:29:20 AM
- I'm American. I really don't think we have layed our claim on English as much as people think. The only reason it is best to keep up to date on American slang is because it is the language of commerce. America and China are two of the biggest countries for trade. I don't think it is correct to call it American English because other English speakers won't be misunderstood, but like every other English country, there are some words that may need explaining to foreigners, and the same goes for every language.
plesoWednesday 16th of February 2005 10:41:53 AM
Englishes - This is indeed an interesting topic and one around much discussion can occur.

Many of the Englishes that have arisen due to colonial expansion etc. are labelled. Here within Australia for example we refer to the English spoken as a first language largely by the Anglo-Celtic population (and hence the dominant form) Stardard Australian English (SAE). There are many other Englishes labelled in Australia, such as Aboriginal English (AE) and so on. I think such labelling is important. It is central to recognising that each incarnation of English is an equally valid and complex language. An English does not have to be unintellible to speakers of different Englishes to be recognised as a language itself. If each versin of English is not afforded classification as a language in its own right, the tendency to view Englishes other than British English globally or those different from the dominant English within a country (eg. SAE in Ausralia), as being simply incorrect, simplified or bastardised forms of the dominant English.

As for American English, I don't think there is any problem in labelling it as such even though it is indeed very similar to British English and Standard Australian English etc. It is impossible to extricate langauge from power and culture, so it is not suprising if there is a poltical element to the labelling of Englishes, it is a matter of course. Perhaps American English is recognised more widely as distinct than other Englishes, but given America's global dominance economically, culturally, politically, militarily etc., is it really surprising?

I think all Englishes however similar or dissimilar from other Englishes have the right to be labelled as distinctive. Not only this but all Englishes should be equally valued. However, while America remains the superpower that it is... its English will remain the most recognised and the most valued.

The global imbalance in the recognition and value of different Englishes is the problem that should be addressed, not the degree by which one English must differ from another to warrent being labelled as distinctive.

And that, folks, is my humble opinion.

HisGirlFridayWednesday 16th of February 2005 11:07:35 AM
- I think it is just called American English, because even though it is understood, pronunciation, word usage, and spelling vary from that in England. Often times people say that Americans don't speak proper English...maybe we don't by some standards but that is just how English is spoken in America.
Also to, a Brit said to a teacher of mine once. "Americans don't really speak English, they speak American."
Personally, i think to call English and it's country combined can be alright. Because there is a difference.
Also to, i do think it has alot to do with personal pride. By saying we speak American-English, it is just a way to be recognized as a country that has a different spin on the langauge.

Like someone said up in another post: "we're not trying to be our own langauge," it is just recognizing the differences and saying: this is what kind of english is being spoken here.

But i would say it would be a little more strange if i was to say that i speak New England- American English and you speak Southern-American English. Even though there are differences in pronunciation style and word usage, and slangs in different parts of America. ( coming from a girl with the Bostonian tongue..blah..) Now just imagine if these different spins on the langauge were written the same way as they were pronounced.
Peter_fra_OzThursday 17th of February 2005 10:55:17 AM
-


Meditate on it, see if you can find the hows and whys to spelling issues, variations and outgrowths.

Current lays to English Variations:
AAVE (Ebonics)
American English
Australian English
British English
Canadian English
Caribbean English
Commonwealth English
English English
Hawaiian English
Hawaiian Pidgin
Hiberno-English
Highland English
Hong Kong English
Indian English
International English
Jamaican English
Liberian English
Malaysian English
New Zealand English
Philippine English
Scottish English
Singaporean English
South African English
Standard English
Welsh English



To learn more why Scots Standard English is the way it is look at this:



And then read this:
http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/sse.htm

majorshakeWednesday 30th of March 2005 12:09:18 PM
- That last is probably the most in-depth explanation one could hope to get. However, I'll add my meager opinion in.
Dialect depends on where you live. By that I mean, if you're well educated and live in a larger city in America, you'll speak American-English. You can understand television programs, others who live in similar areas, but other types of English (British-English, etc.) are different. Mutually intelligible, but strange sounding. In short, the major difference is national. The only instance in which regional differences come into play is when the population is not as educated or in rural areas. In these cases when the language is less standardized, many different intranational dialects can develop.
That's how it seems to me anyway.
applepie1254Monday 25th of April 2005 07:14:35 AM
heya - hmm...yes this is interesting but the thing it-- why does it bother you? I mean its not like its hurting any one or anything, nor is it changing the language in any way-- sorry but i dont understand why you should care so much...then again these were just my thoughts
Pathfinder05Monday 02nd of May 2005 02:44:28 AM
- American-English isn't a different language or dialect. It's just a term that is used to differenciate between British spelling and American spelling. Examples would be: Color/Colour, Grey/Gray (Both are used in US though.), Harbor/Harbour, Favorite/Favourite.
UlvenThursday 05th of May 2005 04:52:08 PM
- You're right that I shouldn't be so emotional about it, I concede.:) But my post was not about the term itself, but about the irresponsible promotion of the term. I think people have missed that point... (which may indeed be partially my fault;)). Though I myself know that the term American English isn't in itself a claim to dialect, that doesn't mean it's not being put across that way sometimes.

Though non-English speakers in a modern city will most probably know that American English and English aren't different enough to bother themselves about, many people from conservative backgrounds and religions legitimately do not know that the term American English is not enough for them to worry about. I am sometimes asked questions along the lines of "Would I be understood in America if I take these English classes? They're not American classes".
So, it's not the term itself that I find inappropriate, but the way it is promoted in some circles. Some non-native are being given the impression that the differences are great enough that they should not attend classes unless it says 'American' English. I think it is reasonable for me to show interest in rectifying this.

[i]It's true, my annoyance probably got in the way of my making this as clear as I'd have liked.[/i] :p
ShocktastikWednesday 18th of May 2005 09:31:39 PM
- I agree with you guys on most of what has been said. But saying that, I have to throw in my two cents :P I think American English is a pretty bad term overall because there are still different forms of "american" english. Alabama english is different from Boston english which are both different from California english. Someone only familiar with one of these forms of english would have the same trouble understanding someone from another region of America as they would understanding an Aussie or a Brit.
matteodhWednesday 01st of June 2005 09:22:11 AM
- The way I look at it "American English" was coined by the British to differentiate their own language from that of the common (i.e. "uneducated") Americans. Face it we're the bastard child of the British Empire.
Footy_FanaticThursday 16th of June 2005 01:19:20 AM
- The only thing is, if you are learning English it si good if you know if you are learning American-English or plain English.Because if you learn plain English but plan to use write letters to your American friends, it's nicer if you know the right spellings
RikardThursday 16th of June 2005 01:20:22 AM
- the [i]right[/i] spellings?
NostromoFriday 17th of June 2005 12:11:48 AM
- It pisses me off when people say "British English". It was born there, it developed there and that is the standard for English as far as I'm concerned.
Footy_FanaticFriday 17th of June 2005 12:36:34 AM
- Yeah the right spellings. English Spellings are different to American English spellings so if you go to America you want to know the American English spellings not the English ones
RionSaturday 18th of June 2005 11:22:15 PM
- Even though the British spellings are correct, and 'American English' spellings are actually wrong?
CarameliciousWednesday 22nd of June 2005 02:18:36 AM
- *dissapointed*

American spellings are not wrong, they are just different from the British spellings. To call american spellings wrong from one perspective would also mean that one could call british spellings wrong from another.
I being an American, would have to say that I don't believe that 'American English' is another seperate language, but just a different dialect of the English Language.
And another thing...
[quote]
The way I look at it "American English" was coined by the British to differentiate their own language from that of the common (i.e. "uneducated") Americans. Face it we're the bastard child of the British Empire.
[/quote]
matteodh, yes I am directing this right toward you, take it how you like...
You could have put your statement in better terms, you come off to me as being very rude in how you stated that, but that is just my opinion.

[quote]
It pisses me off when people say "British English". It was born there, it developed there and that is the standard for English as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
Nostromo

Yes, I find that it would probably offend someone from Britian when people say "British English", but then how do you think that Americans feel when people who are not american, put down the way we speak and calling it "American English". Yes, English as the language was probably developed in Britian, but just because another culture or nation changes a few things here or there, we don't deserve to put in a way, "put down" for it.
Many people might not mean their comments to be offensive, but to some of us, they are.

RikardWednesday 22nd of June 2005 03:53:45 AM
- Oh my god. People are really starting to get agitated about this. I really thought people on this forum was more enlightened than to argue about small things, on the internet....
RionThursday 23rd of June 2005 12:27:06 AM
- AaRon, it's *disappointed* ;)

I fail to understand what was wrong with the correct spellings in the first place. Why change 'colour' to 'color', and 'gaol' to 'jail'? (And what is going on with 'aluminum'?) You're right that they're [b]different[/b], but why? And that's not a rhetorical question, does anyone actually know [b]why[/b] the Americans changed some spellings?

Sorry Ulven, this thread appears to have mutated :)

Hoogard, if it bothers you, ignore it. We're not doing you any harm...yet ;)
RemyThursday 23rd of June 2005 01:24:08 AM
- well as an arabic native, i've spoken english ever since i can remember. my country was ruled by britian for a while and that's why until today everyone uses the british way of writing the spellings and even talking. but since the american music came in people started using the slang but still the british english is used more then the american. and well if you are talking to the middle east all i can say is that we don't care whether it's american english, british english or australian english all we care is that it's english and that we understand it:D as long as we understand the music and movies we don't really care lol :)
as long as we can talk and commuicate with you people we just simply don't care what english we're speaking ;) and besides without english we wouldn't be able to speak to each other right now each one finishes the other like a circle how crazy do i sound? :)
RikardThursday 23rd of June 2005 02:19:02 AM
- Without english there would have been just another language dominating the international relations. It's all about historical power structure.
CarameliciousThursday 23rd of June 2005 05:13:19 AM
- I don't know exactly why the spellings are different, but it was probably due to wanting to be more of a different country. Probably when America was coming about, maybe the founders knew about other languages having different dialects when spoken in different countries and maybe they wanted America to have the same, or maybe it was just adopted through a form of "slang" that is how a lot fo spellings and words that are deemed "Acceptable" have come about now-a-days. But of course this is a far fetched idea. But I just think that as long as we can accept them as being correct spellings (we as in Americans), why can't the rest of the world, I mean our point gets across, people can understand us, evidentally they know what we are saying because they continue to correct us, even though in our eyes we are not wrong.
If we can communicate and be understood, isn't that all that matters?
RionFriday 24th of June 2005 12:13:36 AM
- *nodz* ^_^ fine then. You're all just...[i]different[/i]
I only correct you because you should know better ;)
geldartFriday 24th of June 2005 02:13:38 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Rion[/i]
I fail to understand what was wrong with the correct spellings in the first place. Why change 'colour' to 'color', and 'gaol' to 'jail'? (And what is going on with 'aluminum'?)
[/quote]

Why is colour colour??? it should surely be culer.

If some 'wonderful' person hadn’t decided to use the spelling system that we use now when the first dictionary was put together, then English would be so much easier to spell. So lets all blame the person who created the first dictionary in America for the different spelling in America. ;)

If anyone has seen an dialect dictionary then you will know that they generally make much more sense as far as spelling goes.

RionFriday 24th of June 2005 03:33:32 AM
- Ah, but surely 'culer' would be pronounced 'cooler'? ;) It also reminds me of Spanish 'culo' so I would avoid it lol. I agree English spelling is idiosyncratic at best. And very difficult to learn, especially for foreign people trying valiantly to master it. I blame Shakespeare. Bastard :)
RikardFriday 24th of June 2005 03:33:47 AM
- It's not the spelling that is wrong. It's the pronounciation.

I think all spellings made pefectly sense back then. But from that point pronounciation has changed.
RemySaturday 25th of June 2005 04:03:47 PM
- well said geldart ;)
SuperSonicSpiderMonkeyMonday 27th of June 2005 05:57:17 AM
- As an Englishman I think the use of American words in England (I don't know about Australia et al) is more widespread now than say twenty years ago. Words like "Movie" "Gross" and "Pharmacy" were never used in England back then. I know this because when I was 8 I visited my uncle in Canada.

Even now many medical terms are different:

e.g. Shrink and counselor / Podiatrist and Cheropodist (Being English I think spelt both English words wrong there).

There are also very subtle grammatical differences.The English are more likey to say "have you..." whereas Americans "Did you....".

I don't think these differences are a problem to native or fluent speakers. However, so many people (like some Chinese students I taught) come to England expecting people to speak like they do on the BBC and others having learned American English have a lot of problems with they way the English pronounce some things.
CassiusAllanusSunday 03rd of July 2005 08:59:15 AM
Re: Why 'American' English? - The notion of a language
Perhaps the first question that a sociolinguist needs to ask is, 'What is a language?' Can the notion of 'a language' be defined geographically? Can it be equated with nationality? Or should a language be defined by the mutual intelligibility of its speakers?

The answer to all these questions appears to be 'no'. A geographical definition of a language would separate Australian, British, and American English, which is obviously unsatisfactory. Nationality is a vague notion which has little to do with the language a person speaks. Numerous Soviet Jews, for example, regard themselves as essentially Jewish, yet speak Russian. Mutual intelligibility is of little help, since a Glaswegian and a Cockney are likely to find it harder to understand one another than a Dutchman and a German who are considered to be speaking distinct languages. And there is no objective linguistic criterion which can be applied. Dutch and German are not only mutually intelligible, they are also structurally more alike than some of the so-called dialects of Chinese.

Faced with this dilemma, sociolinguists prefer to start with the notion of a speech community rather than a 'language'. And they define a speech community as any group of people who consider that they speak the same language. Consequently, Dutch and German must be regarded as separate languages, since, in spite of their similarities, the Dutch consider that they speak Dutch and the Germans consider than they speak German. And all the Chinese dialects must be classified as one language, because, in spite of far-reaching differences, their speakers all consider they speak Chinese.


Dialect and accent
Within a speech community, there is considerable language variation. The speech of its members varies according to many factors, including geographical location, age, occupation, socio-economic status, ethnic group and sex.

The most obvious type of variety in a speech community is the use of different dialects. A dialect is usually associated with a particular geographical area, such as the Geordie and Cockney dialects of English, which are spoken in Tyneside and London respectively. The term 'dialect' refers to far greater differences than mere pronunciation. The Lancashire dialect differs from standard British English in sound system, syntax and vocabulary, with phrases such as I don't want for to go, summat for 'something', nowt for 'nothing'. American English ranks as a different dialect from British English, with phonological innovations such as nasal vowels, and constructions such as 'I kinda figured maybe' and 'He said for you not to worry'.

Unfortunately, in everyday usage, the term dialect is often confused with the word accent. An accent refers only to a difference in pronunciation. A Scotsman and a Londoner are likely to speak English with different accents. But if the underlying system and the vocabulary are the same, they will be speaking the same dialect. In fact, although a considerable number of local accents are still found in Britain, dialects are dying out, due to the influence of education, radio and television.

Source: Teach Yourself Linguistics by Jean Aitchison
PsycheSunday 03rd of July 2005 06:01:53 PM
- I must admit that I have refered to American-English as "American" sometimes, though I correct myself straight away when it occured. Though I`ve never gotten the impression, ever believed or ever thought that American-English is another "language", dialect, accent or even a incorret spelled version of so-called British-English. The different terms only imply the pronunciation. I haven`t gotten the impression that the US has tried to promote their dialect/accent.There`s no doubt that the American culture tries to make its impact on us, trying to get us to belive that the Amercan way of life is the only way worth living. But the language itself? Don`t think so.
That`s just come naturally through the media. In my class, 3 out of 28 have a certain (or at least tries to speak with) a British accent, which I then refer to as British-English (which really is English English), 10 out of the 28 have a distinct American-English accent and the rest... .speaks Norwegian-English ;)

Maybe it is a bit extreme to have seperate courses for American English and British English, but I think it`s the best. Not absolutely necessary, but best. I.e, I`m trying to learn Spanish at the moment, and I know that Spanish spoken in Spain is somewhat different from the Spanish in South-American. It doesn`t stop there either. In this particular course, there are two native Spaniards talking (I hope spaniard is the correct term to use, I mean no offence what-so-ever). The two of them both repeat the words we ought to learn. And they both pronounce the words very differently. This leaves me confused, uncertain and I don`t know how *I* am supposed to say it. I`m not sure if I even want to continue following this coyrse. But I still understand that I will be able to understand and speak with other Spanish-speaking people, even though we don`t pronounce them similarly.

I read in Illustrated Science (straight translated from Norwegian :p ) that Norwegian, Swedish and Denmark was considered as the three different dialect of the same language. This was said in an article where scientists studied threatned languages. That hurt my "Norwegian pride", so even though I found Mattheod`s comment ironical and funny, I can relate to Aaron`s feelings on this matter. Is Norwegian a mistyped version of Swedish? We, who don`t even belong to the same branch of the language-tree Peter provided for us?

American spelling...well, it`s certainly isn`t "wrong English". Maybe it once were, I don`t know. They would probably make their dialect more similar to their own accent. Actually,the first time I saw "gaol" in a dictionary, I didn`t even know how to pronounce it. I haven`t seen it written else-where either. It is such a long time ago anyway, and the way of writing has stayed on, so it`s just as correct as "English English".

Norwegians doesn`t look at Bokmål (which is really an "updated" Danish-Norwegian dialect) as a wrong way of writing Danish, even though it`s only a hundred years old. That didn`t keep us from make the Danish language vanish completely from our borders in a century. We, for you who donesn`t know that, even have another way of writing Norwegian based on almost all of Norway`s highly varied dialects. Although the "New" written language isn`t as much used as the few months older "main language", it`s still equally respected, an official written language of Norway..But, in some circles, it`s considered to be the Norwegian version of American-English.

Thank you.

Edit: By the way, I actually think there were others that have been a bit offensive towards certain others here. Don`t forget that what you may seem as fun comment, might be considered a bit rude if it`s over-done...
daomingsziSaturday 16th of July 2005 06:53:24 PM
- Hi. I'm a Filipino and most Filipinos learned American English. I really like this kind of feeling! :) ;)
RikardSaturday 06th of August 2005 10:35:20 PM
- [quote]Is Norwegian a mistyped version of Swedish? [/quote]
Yes ;)
ach_starThursday 01st of September 2005 09:44:16 PM
- I really don't understand why this is all happening. In Romania we also have some regional difference (such as the 'Moldavian' Romanian) that I speak, but that doesn't mean that I see my language as non-Romanian. In the dictionary I can find words that are only used in one region of the country, and I don't mind that. Regarding the labelling of dictionaries as 'American' and 'English', I suppose that this could be avoided and all of the words could be placed in one single dictionary. I have one at home, and if one word isn't used throughout the English-speaking world, then it is labelled Amer. or Brit. I think that it's the best solution, also considering the fact that there are more non-natives then natives who speak the language and who get confused by the situation. Only if other factors beside easyness of learning and correctness are involved?
Mr_LondonMonday 19th of September 2005 11:59:25 AM
- Well, I live in Mexico but my English is British, and people here keeps saying that the American accent is rubbish, even though everyone over here has got the American accent lmao... So people here find the British English as the 'nice english' and the american one as a 'copy'... I personally find the american accent so annoying, maybe cos I'm used to the British one... But yeah, it's called American English cos there's loads of spelling differences between the British and the American English, the most common are the our-or words as colour-color but there's also one rule that people here always forget: ize-ise as realise-realize... and theres more differences like jewellery (i always forget the american spelling lol) and program- programme so... that's basically why the dictionaries say American English or British English haha
joziboyTuesday 18th of October 2005 12:50:45 AM
- The way I see it, the fact that languages change over time is a given. If they didn't Italians would speak Latin and the Brits would speak... Saxon? The point is the English language spread around the world a few hundred years ago now, and so there are obviously changes in all the various parts of the world. I think, had global communications (such as the internet and tv) not been invented, then sure enough, British, American, Australian, and South African would all have become seperate languages, not only seperate dialects (The Dutch settled in South Africa only 150 years before the British and their descendents are speaking a seperate language than Dutch - Afrikaans). They would have become mutually unintilligable. But that process of diversifying was stopped by international media. Instead of becoming more different, they are now becoming more alike. As was mentioned, 'American' words are often used in Britain now. And although I'd like South African English to be considered a seperate language from standard English (There is an Oxford Dictionary of South African English) I recognise that my accent/vocabulary and sentence structure are LESS distinctly South African than that of my parent's generation...
so the point of my rambling is that I think the split nature of global English will close again, and the differences between 'american' and 'british' english will disappear. In the meantime, yeah it does seem a bit rude to use the American and British flags to represent the language - either just the British (since technically they invented it) or all of the English-speaking countries' flags should be used, and that's quite a list!

On the plus side, the fact that Brits and Americans have claimed their two variations on the language are the only two legitimate ones, means that those of us in other English-speaking countries are free to use whichever spelling we see fit. In South Africa, we use 'British' spelling for words like programme, realise, and centre, but 'American' vocabulary, such as pants (instead of trousers), ass (instead of arse), movie (instead of film).

What about other words that are neither American nor British, but recognised as legitimate SA- or Australian-English? Are they incorrect?

PS. is it true that Trainspotting was subtitled in the US?
joziboyWednesday 02nd of November 2005 01:24:46 AM
Alternatives - To all the Americans out there: if you guys use the word 'alternate' where most other English dialects would use 'alternative', (eg, take the alternative route) do you guys use the verb 'to alternate' or has that dropped out of American English?
cesarWednesday 02nd of November 2005 03:16:30 AM
- I know they use [b]to alternate[/b].

JakeeWednesday 23rd of November 2005 04:16:52 AM
- When I say I speak English, I'm not saying I'm speaking British or American type of English in particular. Just English. But I think it's also important to see the differences between different Englishes. In school I'm mainly taught to speak and write British English. And maybe just because it's the form of English used in Europe, right?

There are differences in spelling and pronunciation between Englishes as we all know :D. It would sound good if someone wrote or spoke for example American and British English mixed, would it. And if you say you're writing British English at the moment, people know what kind of spelling you are using. It's good to have names for different Englishes because they DO have different spelling and maybe pronunciations.

And I understand why American English sounds annoying to you Mr_London, I feel the same :D. The pronunciation sounds so lazy :) But then again it's a matter of getting used to one kind of spoken language... Personally I prefer British English because I have relatives there and I wish to speak 'theri' English :D

And those Englishes are all really just one language in my point of view. Just as the Swedish spoken in Finland and the one spoken in Sweden are the same language, just pronounced differently and some different words.

I apologize if I annoyed someone by using these "American" and "British" English terms as examples.


SilentRick015Wednesday 23rd of November 2005 07:29:45 AM
- You know, I would not mind calling my personal English "American"... in fact, I like it! We don't really speak English anymore... we don't live in "flats", drive "lauries"(however you spell that), or hang out with "mates".

In fact, my grandmother's "apartment" is quite nice. My dad drives a beautiful "truck", and I'm probably going to do something with my "friends" this weekend.

I probably could not figure out what the British or Australians are saying, so I say "Just give them their language back! Then they will stop insulting ours!"

Anyways, can you tell I'm American yet?

-SR
RionWednesday 23rd of November 2005 08:18:34 AM
- I quite like my flat, you can hardly hear the lorries that go past sometimes, and my mates come over quite a lot. There was a bloke who lived next-door for a while but he was a bit of a wanker and was even a tad cracked in the noggin so we didn't even invite him over for a cuppa char. In the end he upped sticks and buggered off. I haven't seen his ugly mug in a while, in fact I think the nincompoop may have left the sodding country entirely, as he could never be arsed to actually speak French and always took the piss out of everyone else's accent, even though he was the only bloody Yank for miles around.

Yes dear, we wouldn't mind getting our language back, we do miss the poor thing. It has been tortured so in the past few years.

My good God, I would never have guessed! I could have sworn you were Dutch, then I read the first sentence.
lexiconWednesday 23rd of November 2005 11:29:23 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by joziboy[/i]


To all the Americans out there: if you guys use the word 'alternate' where most other English dialects would use 'alternative', (eg, take the alternative route) do you guys use the verb 'to alternate' or has that dropped out of American English?[/quote]

It depends on how formal the person's English is. Some might say, "I switch between". Alternatively, (heh) others might say, "I alternate between."

In some cases, the word "between" is superfluous and indicative of lazy grammar.

By the way, I pronounce "route" differently depending on its context. For example:

"I was driving on [i]root[/i] 84 East."
"I decided to take an alternate/alternative [i]rowt[/i]."
"Network connectivity was interrupted when the [i]rowter[/i] came unplugged."
SilentRick015Thursday 24th of November 2005 04:58:02 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Rion[/i]


I quite like my flat, you can hardly hear the lorries that go past sometimes, and my mates come over quite a lot. There was a bloke who lived next-door for a while but he was a bit of a wanker and was even a tad cracked in the noggin so we didn't even invite him over for a cuppa char. In the end he upped sticks and buggered off. I haven't seen his ugly mug in a while, in fact I think the nincompoop may have left the sodding country entirely, as he could never be arsed to actually speak French and always took the piss out of everyone else's accent, even though he was the only bloody Yank for miles around.

Yes dear, we wouldn't mind getting our language back, we do miss the poor thing. It has been tortured so in the past few years.

My good God, I would never have guessed! I could have sworn you were Dutch, then I read the first sentence.[/quote]

Hey, we use the words noggin, nincompoop, and (unfortunately) Yank too! hehe... In fact, my favorite baseball team is the New York YANKEES...

Anyhow, anyone who has spoken English has added their own words for things. It is just infuriating when one certain group says it is their language. English, however, is a language that still changes today, so it is still up for grabs.

But you know, speaking "American" is quite fun. ;)
Git-R-Done! lol

By the way, does your workplace require you to use the "lift"?

cesarThursday 24th of November 2005 05:46:38 AM
- Every language in the world evolves. It's just part of human nature. :p



SilentRick015Friday 25th of November 2005 02:56:50 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by cesar[/i]


Every language in the world evolves. It's just part of human nature. :p


[/quote]

The point, though, is the question "Is American English its own language?" Do you think we are still "Anglophones", or have we as Americans invented our own language?
joziboyFriday 25th of November 2005 04:19:21 AM
- Recognising that 'English' is still the same language (ie it's mutually intelligible) in all it's regional variations doesn't mean being an 'Anglophone' though! British English just happens to be one of the many Englishes floating about the globe :)
RionFriday 25th of November 2005 06:33:47 PM
- [quote]
Hey, we use the words noggin, nincompoop, and (unfortunately) Yank too! hehe... In fact, my favorite baseball team is the New York YANKEES...
[/quote]

Hehe yeah I think that might be where is comes from.

[quote]
English, however, is a language that still changes today, so it is still up for grabs.
[/quote]

By half the world it would appear :p

[quote]
By the way, does your workplace require you to use the "lift"?
[/quote]

No, my University requires me to use the 'escalier' or the 'ascenseur', however when I actually lived in England I did use the lift yes ;) Why? What do you say there? Elevator?

Errrm no I don't think the American 'dialect' is its own language. It's still English, with a few slight grammatical changes like 'gotta do sth' and can hardly count as a separate language. Much as I hate to admit it, British English is also being (for reasons of politeness :p) [i]affected[/i] by Americanisms. So if English in general continues to adapt to the changes that are taking place all over the globe then no anglophone country will end up speaking a different language other than English. As [b]joziboy[/b] said, with the internet and other global communication that we have nowadays, it's unlikely that variations of English will diverge enough to create a separate language like Afrikaans and Dutch did.

[quote]
"I was driving on root 84 East."
"I decided to take an alternate/alternative rowt."
"Network connectivity was interrupted when the rowter came unplugged."
[/quote]

I still think people who say the second one are a little cracked :p, but it's interesting that even we (les Anglais) say rowter for router and not rooter... Or at least everyone I know does, please correct me if I'm wrong, in this case I would love to be wrong :D
It must come from American. Hmmm...
joziboySaturday 26th of November 2005 05:30:25 PM
- Right, well since it really gets on my tits when people refer to British and American English as the only two forms out there, I'd thought I'd copy the list from Wikipedia on here for all y'all :)

[b]English dialects[/b]

[b]British Isles[/b]
English English
Highland English
Mid Ulster English
Scottish English
Welsh English
Irish English

[b]United States[/b]
AAVE (Ebonics)
American English
California English
Hawaiian English
Southern American English
Spanglish/Chicano English

[b]Canada[/b]
Canadian English
Newfoundland English
Quebec English

[b]Oceania[/b]
Australian English
New Zealand English

[b]Asia[/b]
Hong Kong English
Indian English
Malaysian English
Philippine English
Singaporean English
Sri Lankan English

[b]Other countries[/b]
Bermudian English
Caribbean English
Jamaican English
Liberian English
Malawian English
South African English

[b]Miscellaneous[/b]
Basic English
Commonwealth English
Globish
International English
Plain English
Simplified English
Special English
Standard English

And [b]Rion[/b], you can relax, it's only [i]you[/i] that calls a router a rowter :p ;)
RionSunday 04th of December 2005 02:03:40 AM
- Thank you Al, you fill me full of fleeb ;):p
joziboySunday 04th of December 2005 07:13:24 AM
- fleeb? *al scratches his head and looks around for a dictionary*
tony123456Sunday 01st of January 2006 04:45:11 AM
- What happned to old English? Now . that's sad! Such a beautiful language, and now we have all gone lazy and lost it...The day's they used shall and shalln't , now it's always 'will' and won't..
ClivenMonday 02nd of January 2006 04:00:15 AM
- That's Middle English and Early Modern English :P

You wouldn't recognise Old English if it slapped you in the face (it sounds like Old Norse, Norn and a little like Icelandic).
tony123456Monday 02nd of January 2006 07:16:35 AM
- Thankyou Cliven! Soon after I found a post about Old English and you're completely correct!:D
stormgoblinThursday 12th of January 2006 04:58:54 PM
- forgive me if i may, however i think i should correct your english, rion. you mentioned england was affected by american speech, mostly due to politeness. i believe the proper term here is "subservience," not politeness.
come on you know its true. everyone thinks george bush is the biggest fool. but then again, blair is kissing his butt...
i agree its a dialect, or more appropriately, a collection of dialects. its not like every language doesn't change, anyways. even in the absence of differentiated culture. this is a question of traditionalism vs. modern invention, almost. i mentioned this in a political post--if one might care to look at the situation from a global perspective, maybe its fair to say that this pent-up energy of stifling traditionalism had to manifest itself somehow, and so changes in language occurs with the onset of a digressive culture. europe stayed old--that was their position. and as ugly as it may look sometimes, invention--change beat them out. everyone eats grease burgers from McDonald's. but my point was to say that i don't think its fair to really blame america, entirely. because the pot bubbled over here--but it was cooking for a long time over in europe, and with the rest of the world.
besides, the dutch could have said "we want our language back" to the british, right?
i say "rowt" and "rowter." i say "root" sometimes, especially when referring to highways. i always thought it was more proper sounding to say "rowt" i think. this makes the distinction clear between "rooter" like as in "roto-rooter," something that roots through an area, and something which facilitates a passageway.
i just thought it sounded kinda gay to say "rooter" no offense.
i had a middle school english teacher who had a hobby of studying old, or middle english, or whatever it was. i think that people are capable of such amazing and profound talents as learning old english, however, its just the simple case that the masses in foreign lands don't hear much about them. they aren't in a business to make money. businessmen study to make money, so everyone sees what they create. and people of this nature know how to pander to a cheap audience. so, what does this suggest about foreigners, who buy into this, anyways? its not exactly my fault if you have your face stuffed full of chili cheesburgers to look beyond the golden arches and see any different about america.
well i think that's all. hope i didn't bother anyone. but have a good day, and
salaam
mene


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