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nena77	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 04:27:02 PM
Aντωνυμίες & πτώσεis - This is a topic about the way the cases are used in the Greek language. Feel free to ask any question you like and tell me off if I do not explain things properly ;) Ok, we are all familiar with the personal pronouns in the nominative form. They are the ones we use in the verb conjugation game: Εγώ Εσύ Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό (Masc/Fem/Neut) Εμείς Εσείς Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά (Masc/Fem/Neut) We use these to show the person that does something Εγώ τρέχω run Εσύ κάθεσαι sit Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό κλαίει cry Εμείς ταξιδεύουμε travel Εσείς φεύγετε leave Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά περπατούν walk These verbs do not take an object in Greek, they are what we call \"non-transitive\". When we have a verb that transfers the energy to an object, we mostly use the accusative form for the object (the subject is always in the nominative). Εγώ ακούω τον ήχο [I listen to the sound] Εσύ βλέπεις τη θέα [You see the view] Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό τρώει το παγωτό [He/She/It eats the ice-cream] Εμείς γράφουμε την έκθεση [We write the essay] Εσείς γνωρίζετε την πόλη [You know the city] Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά αγγίζουν τον τοίχο [They touch the wall] When the object is a person we use the personal pronoun in the accusative case (the subject remains in the nominative). So: Εγώ becomes εμένα [me] Εσύ becomes εσένα [you] Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό become αυτόν/αυτήν/αυτό [him/her/it] Εμείς becomes εμάς [us] Εσείς becomes εσάς [you] Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά become αυτούς/αυτές/αυτά [them] If we replace the impersonal objects above with personal, the sentences become like this: Εγώ ακούω αυτόν/αυτήν/αυτό [I hear him/her/it] Εσύ βλέπεις εμένα [You see me] Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό τρώει εσένα [He/She/It eats you] Εμείς γράφουμε αυτούς/αυτές/αυτά [We write them] Εσείς γνωρίζετε εμάς [You know us] Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά αγγίζουν εσάς [They touch you] Ok, some of the translations are a bit funny but the grammar is correct. ;)
jeffopoulos	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 04:32:45 PM
- Hi Nena77 What is the difference between Εσύ βλέπεις εμένα and Εσύ με βλέπεις ?
nena77	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 04:42:10 PM
- It means exactly the same. The pronouns have a weak form that cannot stand on its own in a sentence, i.e. it needs the verb. εμένα - με εσένα - σε αυτόν/αυτήν/αυτό - τον/την/το εμάς -μας εσάς -σας αυτούς/αυτές/αυτά - τους/τις/τα Εγώ ακούω αυτόν/αυτήν/αυτό = Εγώ τον/την/το ακούω Εσύ βλέπεις εμένα = Εσύ με βλέπεις Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό τρώει εσένα = Αυτός/Αυτή/Αυτό σε τρώει Εμείς γράφουμε αυτούς/αυτές/αυτά = Εμείς τους/τις/τα γράφουμε Εσείς γνωρίζετε εμάς = Εσείς μας γνωρίζετε Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά αγγίζουν εσάς = Αυτοί/Αυτές/Αυτά σας αγγίζουν ;)
nena77	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 04:54:37 PM
- I forgot to add that the weak form of the pronoun always goes before the verb. Also, we mostly use the weak form unless we want to emphasise the object. Εσύ με βλέπεις - You [b]see[/b] me Εσύ βλέπεις εμένα - You see [b]me[/b]
Dusica	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 05:21:37 PM
- It would be great if someone could create some game so that we could practice cases :) and pronouns as well.
nena77	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 05:49:56 PM
Αντωνυμίες κaι πτώσ& - Ok, got the point :) I\'ll give an example of a noun in each gender and the way they are conjugated in each case. Singular - Plural The eagle (Masculine noun ending in -ός) Nom: ο αετός - οι αετοί Gen: του αετού - των αετών Acc: τον αετό - τους αετούς Voc: [ώ] αετέ - [ώ] αετοί The door (Feminine ending in -α) Nom: η πόρτα - οι πόρτες Gen: της πόρτας - των πορτών Acc: την πόρτα - τις πόρτες Voc: [ώ] πόρτα - [ώ] πόρτες The house (Neutral ending in -ι) Nom: το σπίτι - τα σπίτια Gen: του σπιτιού - των σπιτιών Acc: το σπίτι - τα σπίτια Voc: [ώ] σπίτι - [ώ] σπίτια These are the articles for all the genders and an example of how nouns with certain endings are conjugated. So, in the same way we can conjugate... [please fill in the rest ;)] [u]Masc - the rabbit[/u] Nom: ο [b]λαγός[/b] - οι Gen: του - των Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] [u]Fem - the cat[/u] Nom: η [b]γάτα[/b] - οι Gen: της - των Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] [u]Neut - the ear[/u] Nom: το [b]αυτί[/b] - τα Gen: του - των Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω] *Eisai to gatoulini mou?*
Panos	Wednesday 23rd of August 2006 08:19:09 PM
- Masc - the rabbit Nom: ο λαγός - οι [b]λαγοί[/b] Gen: του - των Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the cat Nom: η γάτα - οι [b]γάτες[/b] Gen: της - των Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the ear Nom: το αυτί - τα [b]αυτιά[/b] Gen: του - των Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω]
squeak	Thursday 24th of August 2006 03:14:10 AM
- THANK YOU nena77! :D Not got time (again!) to join in at the moment, but would like to ask a question. Can somebody explain the vocaive case and when it is used? I can\'t understand what it is from the things I\'ve read. Thanks
nena77	Thursday 24th of August 2006 05:15:47 AM
- Vocative is the case we use when we call someone. Usually for the feminine and neutral nouns it is the same as in nominative, but the masculine nouns change the ending. ;)
jeffopoulos	Thursday 24th of August 2006 02:24:02 PM
- Two good exercises for pronouns: 1: Replace the nouns in a sentence with pronouns. e.g. Η Μαρία δίνει τον αναπτήρα του Σπήρου. Αυτή τον του δίνει (I think) 2: Complete such sentences as: He sees them ... but they don\'t see him Τουσ βλέπει ... (μα δεν τον Βλέπουν) We heard her ... but she didn\'t hear us Την ακούσαμε ... (μα δεν μασ άκουσε) (I got this idea from www.kypros.org/learngreek I found it quite difficult but excellent practice for trying to think in Greek) The vocative case was used on me when someone called me Jeffopoule. This nickname was donated by a friend at the Greek club. I hope the story is interesting. I went to the Greek club in Perth to try and get the words of a song translated. (Στο περιγιάλι το κρυφό από Μίκις Θεοδωράκησ). They introduced me to the teacher and she roped me into taking lessons and bought me a beer. That was 3 years ago.
jeffopoulos	Thursday 24th of August 2006 02:28:55 PM
- I think that link is case sensitive. Try www.kypros.org/LearnGreek
nena77	Tuesday 29th of August 2006 03:53:24 PM
- [quote]Αυτή τον του δίνει[/quote] It should be Αυτή [b]του[/b] τον δίνει [word order] What happened to the game? Too difficult? ;) ;) ;)
jeffopoulos	Tuesday 29th of August 2006 04:20:08 PM
- Sorry Nena, I didn\'t notice the game. Do we do one word at a time or the lot? Masc - the rabbit Nom: ο λαγός - οι λαγοί Gen: του λαγού - των Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the cat Nom: η γάτα - οι γάτες Gen: της γάτας - των Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the ear Nom: το αυτί - τα αυτιά Gen: του αυτού - των Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω]
nena77	Tuesday 29th of August 2006 04:53:30 PM
- Masc - the rabbit Nom: ο λαγός - οι λαγοί Gen: του λαγού - των λαγών Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the cat Nom: η γάτα - οι γάτες Gen: της γάτας - των γατών Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the ear Nom: το αυτί - τα αυτιά Gen: του αυτ[b]ι[/b]ού - των αυτιών Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω] Good to see someone is paying attention :P One word at the time woulb ok, but if you think it is going very slowly, we can go faster. :)
nena77	Tuesday 29th of August 2006 04:53:44 PM
- Masc - the rabbit Nom: ο λαγός - οι λαγοί Gen: του λαγού - των λαγών Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the cat Nom: η γάτα - οι γάτες Gen: της γάτας - των γατών Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the ear Nom: το αυτί - τα αυτιά Gen: του αυτ[b]ι[/b]ού - των αυτιών Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω] Good to see someone is paying attention :P One word at the time would be ok, but if you think it is going very slowly, we can go faster. :)
jeffopoulos	Thursday 31st of August 2006 04:07:22 PM
- Masc - the rabbit Nom: ο λαγός - οι λαγοί Gen: του λαγού - των λαγών Acc: τον λαγό - τους λαγούς Voc: [ώ] λαγέ - [ω] λαγοί Fem - the cat Nom: η γάτα - οι γάτες Gen: της γάτας - των γατών Acc: την γάτα - τις γάτες Voc: [ω] γάτα - [ω] γάτες Neut - the ear Nom: το αυτί - τα αυτιά Gen: του αυτιού - των αυτιών Acc: το αυτί - τα αυτιά Voc: [ω] αυτί - [ω] αυτιά σωστά ή λάθος; Nena, I\'m impatient to get to the unusual ones. Can you help me with these? Μπορείς να με βοηθήσεισ με αωτές τίς λέξεις; Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι Gen: του - των Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι Gen: της - των Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτομα - τα Gen: του - των Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω]
nena77	Thursday 31st of August 2006 04:33:18 PM
- Ok jeffopoule :) I had a list with several nouns, including some more difficult ones, but from what I see, the level is quite high, so we will have to move forward quite fast. A quick \"correction\". The accusative of males and females has the article \"τον\" and \"την\". The final \"ν\" from the article is only present when the next word begins with vowel or with one of the letters \"κ, π, τ, ξ, ψ\" or with one of the diphthongs \"μπ, γκ, ντ, τσ, τζ\". So, the article loses the \"ν\" before the word \"λαγό\" and \"γάτα\". So we say \"το λαγό\" and \"τη γάτα\" in the accusative case. Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι Gen: του μαθητή- των Acc: τον - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι Gen: της συντρόφου- των Acc: την - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτ[b]ω[/b]μα - τα Gen: του πατώματος- των Acc: το - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω]
Panos	Thursday 31st of August 2006 06:11:53 PM
- Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι Gen: του μαθητή- των Acc: τον μαθητή - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι Gen: της συντρόφου- των Acc: την σύντροφο - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτωμα - τα Gen: του πατώματος- των Acc: το πάτωμα - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω]
nena77	Thursday 31st of August 2006 06:15:05 PM
- [quote]Acc: την σύντροφο [/quote] It is actually [b]τη σύντροφο[/b] as the article [b]την[/b] drops the final \"ν\" [see \"correction\" above. :)
jeffopoulos	Friday 01st of September 2006 11:58:27 AM
- Nena, thank-you for your corrections and help. I knew I couldn\'t avoid learning when to drop the ν I\'ll make that my next task:)
jeffopoulos	Friday 01st of September 2006 12:45:46 PM
- Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι μαθητές Gen: του μαθητή- των Acc: <β>το μαθητή - τους Voc: [ώ] - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι σύντροφοι Gen: της συντρόφου- των Acc: <β>τη σύντροφο - τις Voc: [ω] - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτωμα - τα πατώματα Gen: του πατώματος- των Acc: το πάτωμα - τα Voc: [ω] - [ω]
nena77	Friday 01st of September 2006 03:10:11 PM
- Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι μαθητές Gen: του μαθητή- των Acc: το μαθητή - τους Voc: [ώ] μαθητή - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι σύντροφοι Gen: της συντρόφου- των Acc: τη σύντροφο - τις Voc: [ω] σύντροφε - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτωμα - τα πατώματα Gen: του πατώματος- των Acc: το πάτωμα - τα Voc: [ω] πάτωμα - [ω]
jeffopoulos	Tuesday 05th of September 2006 01:00:31 PM
- Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι μαθητές Gen: του μαθητή- των μαθητών Acc: το μαθητή - τους Voc: [ώ] μαθητή - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι σύντροφοι Gen: της συντρόφου- των συντροφών ? Acc: τη σύντροφο - τις Voc: [ω] σύντροφε - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτωμα - τα πατώματα Gen: του πατώματος- των πατώματων Acc: το πάτωμα - τα Voc: [ω] πάτωμα - [ω]
nena77	Wednesday 06th of September 2006 01:16:49 PM
- Masc - the student Nom: ο μαθητής - οι μαθητές Gen: του μαθητή- των μαθητών Acc: το μαθητή - τους μαθητές Voc: [ω] μαθητή - [ω] Fem - the (female) companion Nom: η σύντροφος - οι σύντροφοι Gen: της συντρόφου- των συντροφών [b]συντρ[u]ό[/u]φων[/b] Acc: τη σύντροφο - τις συντρόφους Voc: [ω] σύντροφε - [ω] Neut - the floor Nom: το πάτωμα - τα πατώματα Gen: του πατώματος- των πατώματων [b]πατωμ[u]ά[/u]των[b] Acc: το πάτωμα - τα πατώματα Voc: [ω] πάτωμα - [ω]

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