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| giulia_sweet | Friday 21st of April 2006 02:54:59 PM |
| the greek alphabet - Α α = αλφα Β β = βητα Γ γ = γαμα Δ δ = δελτα Ε ε = εψιλον Ζ ζ = ζητα Η η = ητα θ θ = θητα Ι ι = γιωτα Κ κ = καπα Λ λ = λαμδα Μ μ = μι Ν ν = νι Ξ ξ = ξι Ο ο = ομικρον Π π = πι Ρ ρ = ρο Σ σ = σιγμα Τ τ -ταυ Υ υ -υψιλον Θ θ = φι Χ χ = ψι Ω ω = ωμεγα | |
| Julianita | Saturday 29th of April 2006 03:46:32 AM |
| - what\'s the difference between [b]Ε ε = εψιλον[/b] and [b]Η η = ητα [/b] ??? | |
| Panos | Monday 01st of May 2006 04:37:30 AM |
| - The Ε ε = εψιλον makes an \"eh\" sound, like the e in \'bet\'. The Η η = ητα is an \"ee\" sound like in \'bee\'. There are also Ι ι and Υ υ that sound same as Η η. | |
| Julianita | Thursday 04th of May 2006 07:53:16 PM |
| - thank you panos !! :) | |
| squeak | Saturday 27th of May 2006 07:00:32 AM |
| - Anyone know why there are three letters that have the sound \"ee\" and 2 with an \"o\" sound? | |
| Dusica | Saturday 27th of May 2006 02:06:35 PM |
| - Since υ,ι and η all sound the same,is there some rule in writing?How can I know which one to use if I have never seen the word written before?And also,is there some rule for using ο and ω? | |
| Jani | Saturday 27th of May 2006 02:16:14 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by squeak[/i] Anyone know why there are three letters that have the sound \\\"ee\\\" and 2 with an \\\"o\\\" sound?[/quote] You are right - there are 3 letters, but as far as I know, there are SIX ways of writing down this sound (using dupraphs as well): [b]η, ι, υ, ει, οι, υι[/b] I\'ve never heard of any rule as to the usage though. :( It\'s probably etimological, so maybe it would help us if we learnt Ancient Greek first. :) Just kidding! | |
| Dusica | Saturday 27th of May 2006 04:55:27 PM |
| - I wish there was some rule :( | |
| Jani | Saturday 27th of May 2006 05:27:32 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by dusicaBG[/i] I wish there was some rule :([/quote] We all join you in your wishes. :( As to why there are 6 [ee] sounds, I don\'t know, but I think in Ancient Greek they were not all pronounced the same. Specially the digraphs were probably pronounced as diphtongs, and I think η was a [e] sound. I\'m not sure though, I think I read it somewhere. | |
| Jani | Saturday 27th of May 2006 05:32:49 PM |
| - Oh, I just found it. [url=http://www.cogsci.indiana.edu/farg/harry/lan/grkphon.htm]THIS[/url] is where I read that. :) Looks like [b]ι[/b] was the only letter for [ee] sound as we know it in Modern Greek. Digraph were pronounced like diphtongs, [b]η[/b] represented an [e] sound and [b]υ[/b] a round [ee] sound, like in French [b]u[/b]ne. | |
| Dusica | Saturday 27th of May 2006 06:07:33 PM |
| - Thanks Janecito :) I don\'t really feel like studying Ancient Greek ;) | |
| Jani | Saturday 27th of May 2006 06:43:49 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by dusicaBG[/i] Thanks Janecito :) I don\'t really feel like studying Ancient Greek ;)[/quote] I understand you perfectly. Neither do I. ;) But it explains why there are so many ways of writing the same sound in Modern Greek. I mean, if it was like this since ever, 5 of those would definitely have disappeared by now... | |
| Dusica | Saturday 27th of May 2006 11:04:20 PM |
| - I wish they could disappear now :( I want them to disappear :) | |
| squeak | Saturday 27th of May 2006 11:06:39 PM |
| - All of them? :/ That would few vowels. Could be interesting. ;) Wonder how many words would be left? | |
| Dusica | Saturday 27th of May 2006 11:45:37 PM |
| - Not all,just 5 of them :) The words would be easier to remember ;) | |
| squeak | Saturday 27th of May 2006 11:48:42 PM |
| - They certainly would. Not having about 10 different ways one word could be spelt, if you had never seen it before. :) | |
| Panos | Sunday 28th of May 2006 02:08:14 AM |
| - Well, i would say that there is not reason for anybody to panic when it comes to right spelling. Actually there are rules, that maybe are not clear for learners now - but also for some native speakers :) - but can help some people to write correctly the endings, at least. For example: -All the verbs that end in -\"o\" sound in the first person singular, that \'o\' is always omega - ω -. -In second and third person the endings -is, i are always with \'ει\', -εις, - ει. -All female nouns that end in -i is always -η, and neutral that end in \'o\' this is always όμικρον \'ο\'. -All masculine endings in -os is with \'o\' and in -is is with \'η\'. There are also other rules that i will refer to in another post or upon request. The rest is a matter of building a vocabulary and remembering words. I can\'t explain why \'ειρήνη\'-peace is not written \'ιρίνη\' instead - it is a matter of etymology as janecito wrote earlier. I know that spelling is a difficult matter in greek language - but also in other languages, (i am thinking of french now.. )- and many greeks have problems also. But be brave, you are wonderful and i am proud of you all. :) | |
| Dusica | Sunday 28th of May 2006 02:44:33 AM |
| - Thanks,Panos!It was nice to hear :) | |
| Panos | Sunday 28th of May 2006 02:58:58 AM |
| - Παρακαλώ :) | |
| Jani | Sunday 28th of May 2006 04:41:28 AM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by panos74[/i] -All female nouns that end in -i is always -η, and neutral that end in \'o\' this is always όμικρον \'ο\'. [/quote] So, could we also say that ... ... if a neutral noun ends in \'i\' this is always γιώτα \'ι\'? [quote][i]Originally posted by panos74[/i] I know that spelling is a difficult matter in greek language - but also in other languages, (i am thinking of french now.. )- and many greeks have problems also. [/quote] Let\'s not forget about the almighty English here. :) If we nailed the English spelling with an adequate level of accuracy, we sure aren\'t going to let Greek spelling stop us. :) | |
| squeak | Sunday 28th of May 2006 07:41:29 AM |
| - What about me, I\'ve grown up with this stupid spelling? I can see why people can struggle but don\'t see it as too much of an obstacle, but that\'s probably because I\'ve grown up with it. But then, I suppose it could be the same for Panos looking at me. The endings of nouns and verbs are one thing, they have some rules. It\'s the other times those vowels are used that cause the most difficulty, I think. It seems, that to be able to use a language you need to know the gender of nouns, or at least some idea of how to guess, and how to conjugate verbs (I\'m doing well, considering the other thread then, aren\'t I? ;)), so once you\'ve been learning a language for a while, you should start to get the hang of those. I guess the rest is down to memory and guesswork and correction. :) | |
| squeak | Sunday 28th of May 2006 07:45:42 AM |
| - Here\'s another quick question about spelling. Why is 11 spelt \"έντεκα\" with a \"τ\" and not \"ένδεκα\" with a \"δ\". Does this date back to ancient Greek also? | |
| lorelai | Sunday 28th of May 2006 01:36:34 PM |
| - Sure, we can blame it on evolution every time. ;) I\'m definitely not the right person to answer anybody\'s doubts on Greek and I\'m sure Panos will have a much better explanation for it all but, until then, here\'s what Mr. J. T. Pring, author of the \"Pocket Oxford Greek Dictionary\" has to say on the subject: [quote]By the same date [the 4th century A.D.] the voiced stops represented by β,δ, γ had become replaced by fricatives. But in certain moder forms the labial and dental stops are stil preserved after μ, ν, being now written as π, τ. [/quote] Therefore, it\'s just a question of the language being a \"living organism\", constantly adapting to the social context, while still preserving old traits. Yeah, not exactly the explanation you were expecting, right. ;) As I was saying, I\'m sure Panos will manage to explain it better to us all. In the meantime: [quote][i]Originally posted by janecito[/i] If we nailed the English spelling with an adequate level of accuracy, we sure aren\'t going to let Greek spelling stop us. :)[/quote] Hear, hear! Exactly what I keep telling myself every time I cannot seem to remember how a certain Greek word is spelled. In the end, it seems to be just a question of embracing the language \"as is\" and enjoying its peculiarities as ways to avoid always having to \"play by the rules\". :) | |
| Dusica | Sunday 28th of May 2006 02:45:46 PM |
| - Actually,I wasn\'t complainig about the entire spelling system,just about too many \'ee\' sounds :) I really think it is completely unnecessary.But,of course,it is nothing in comparison with English spelling.And I\'m certainly not giving up Greek just because of spelling :) | |
| squeak | Sunday 28th of May 2006 03:12:48 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by lorelai[/i] Sure, we can blame it on evolution every time. ;) I\'m definitely not the right person to answer anybody\'s doubts on Greek and I\'m sure Panos will have a much better explanation for it all but, until then, here\'s what Mr. J. T. Pring, author of the \\\"Pocket Oxford Greek Dictionary\\\" has to say on the subject: [quote]By the same date [the 4th century A.D.] the voiced stops represented by β,δ, γ had become replaced by fricatives. But in certain moder forms the labial and dental stops are stil preserved after μ, ν, being now written as π, τ. [/quote] Therefore, it\'s just a question of the language being a \\\"living organism\\\", constantly adapting to the social context, while still preserving old traits. Yeah, not exactly the explanation you were expecting, right. ;) As I was saying, I\'m sure Panos will manage to explain it better to us all. [/quote] Thanks :) Not about to give up Greek, like dusicaBG, but it can get frustrating. :( Ah well. | |
| Dusica | Sunday 28th of May 2006 03:26:34 PM |
| - :) Sorry,I didn\'t make myself clear.I\'m not giving up Greek,and especially not because of something like spelling.I like it too much and I\'ll be very persistent with learning until I become fluent.So,see you around ;) | |
| squeak | Sunday 28th of May 2006 03:29:53 PM |
| - It\'s a nice language :D | |
| Dusica | Sunday 28th of May 2006 03:37:54 PM |
| - Nice is a too modest and poor word :) It is perfect!! | |
| squeak | Sunday 28th of May 2006 03:41:38 PM |
| - I\'ll go for close to perfect. There can occasionally be problems ;) It has a rhythm to it and it flows. | |
| Jani | Sunday 28th of May 2006 07:23:32 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by lorelai[/i] In the end, it seems to be just a question of embracing the language \\\"as is\\\" and enjoying its peculiarities as ways to avoid always having to \\\"play by the rules\\\". :)[/quote] I agree, it\'s knowing the peculiar details that makes you feel really good. Not knowing hundreds of regular, but a couple of strangely irregular verbs, for instance. :) I\'m also impressed each time I come across a Greek word that is like a word in other languages (specially Romanian, Serbian and Russian – due to the vicinity to and contact with Greek, I\'m guessing – probably in other languages that had contact with Greek as well, but those are the three I\'m at least a bit familiar with :) ). And I\'m not talking about the Greek words that are known to practically every Indo-European language specially in science (like English words ending in -logy etc.) etc. I\'m talking about the words of popular everyday use, like in Romanian (Κοκκινο[b]σκουφίτσα[/b] > [b]Scufiţa[/b] roşie, [b]παπούτσι[/b] > [b]papuci[/b]), Serbian ([b]μπογιά[/b] > [b]boja[/b], [b]παπούτσι[/b] > [b]papuće[/b]) and Russian ([b]κρεβάτι[/b] > [b]кровать[/b], [b]τετράδιο[/b] > [b]тетрадь[/b]). It really is an amazing language. :) PS: Pardon me any possible spelling mistakes. Specially in Serbian, I\'m never sure about using Ć/Č. ;) | |
| Dusica | Sunday 28th of May 2006 09:26:53 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by janecito[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by lorelai[/i] In the end, it seems to be just a question of embracing the language \\\\\\\"as is\\\\\\\" and enjoying its peculiarities as ways to avoid always having to \\\\\\\"play by the rules\\\\\\\". :)[/quote] I agree, it\'s knowing the peculiar details that makes you feel really good. Not knowing hundreds of regular, but a couple of strangely irregular verbs, for instance. :) I\'m also impressed each time I come across a Greek word that is like a word in other languages (specially Romanian, Serbian and Russian – due to the vicinity to and contact with Greek, I\'m guessing – probably in other languages that had contact with Greek as well, but those are the three I\'m at least a bit familiar with :) ). And I\'m not talking about the Greek words that are known to practically every Indo-European language specially in science (like English words ending in -logy etc.) etc. I\'m talking about the words of popular everyday use, like in Romanian (Κοκκινο[b]σκουφίτσα[/b] > [b]Scufiţa[/b] roşie, [b]παπούτσι[/b] > [b]papuci[/b]), Serbian ([b]μπογιά[/b] > [b]boja[/b], [b]παπούτσι[/b] > [b]papuće[/b]) and Russian ([b]κρεβάτι[/b] > [b]кровать[/b], [b]τετράδιο[/b] > [b]тетрадь[/b]). It really is an amazing language. :) PS: Pardon me any possible spelling mistakes. Specially in Serbian, I\'m never sure about using Ć/Č. ;)[/quote] [b]papuče[/b] ;) And,I agree with you.I like also very much to see connections between languages,not only with Greek.Here are some other Greek words in Serbian: [b]biblioteka[/b] > [b]βιβλιοθήκι[/b] ,[b]ikona[/b] > [b]εικόνα[/b] ,[b]gips[/b] > [b]γύψος[/b] ,[b]hiljada[b] > [b]χίλια[/b] ,[b]drum[/b] > [b]δρόμος[/b] ,[b]kaldrma[/b] > [b]καλντερίμι[/b] ,[b]anđeo[/b] > [b]άγγελος[/b]. | |
| malina | Monday 19th of June 2006 04:28:48 AM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by giulia_sweet[/i] Α α = αλφα Β β = βητα Γ γ = γαμα Δ δ = δελτα Ε ε = εψιλον Ζ ζ = ζητα Η η = ητα θ θ = θητα Ι ι = γιωτα Κ κ = καπα Λ λ = λαμδα Μ μ = μι Ν ν = νι Ξ ξ = ξι Ο ο = ομικρον Π π = πι Ρ ρ = ρο Σ σ = σιγμα Τ τ -ταυ Υ υ -υψιλον Θ θ = φι Χ χ = ψι Ω ω = ωμεγα[/quote] Wau!!! this is very hard! | |
| squeak | Monday 19th of June 2006 04:33:06 AM |
| - It can be at first, but once you\'ve got it, it\'s easy. Spelling and such aren\'t, but reading is. Each letter has one sound, with a few exceptions in the form of dipthongs. 3 out of 7 vowels have the same sound and 2 others also have the same sound. Btw, welcome to Phrasebase! | |
| malina | Monday 19th of June 2006 04:42:11 AM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by squeak[/i] It can be at first, but once you\'ve got it, it\'s easy. Spelling and such aren\'t, but reading is. Each letter has one sound, with a few exceptions in the form of dipthongs. 3 out of 7 vowels have the same sound and 2 others also have the same sound. Btw, welcome to Phrasebase![/quote] Thanks! this is veeeeery hard for me! | |
| squeak | Monday 19th of June 2006 04:47:10 AM |
| - How is it that you are learning? | |
| malina | Monday 19th of June 2006 04:58:52 AM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by squeak[/i] How is it that you are learning?[/quote] I dont understand nothing. :) | |
| Jani | Monday 19th of June 2006 02:26:05 PM |
| - Welcome to Greek department of PhraseBase, malina. Come and join us at other games as well. :) | |
| Dusica | Monday 19th of June 2006 09:43:29 PM |
| - Dobro došla,Malina :) Hope to see you around! | |
| malina | Monday 19th of June 2006 09:50:13 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by janecito[/i] Welcome to Greek department of PhraseBase, malina. Come and join us at other games as well. :)[/quote] thank you! | |
| malina | Monday 19th of June 2006 09:51:33 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by dusicaBG[/i] Dobro došla,Malina :) Hope to see you around![/quote] hvala! ja bi volela da se ukljucim ali ja sam totalni pocetnik i ne znam nista. | |
| Dusica | Monday 19th of June 2006 10:22:26 PM |
| - I svi mi smo nekada bili totalni početnici,ali korak po korak pa ćeš već naučiti nešto.Ja ti predlažem da pogledaš lekcije koje je Panos poslao,kao i naravno sve ostale postove.Moraš prvo da naučiš grčki alfabet.Evo nekih sajtova koji su meni koristili: http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/filog http://www.biblicalgreek.org/grammar/alphabet/greek_alphabet.html http://mkatz.web.wesleyan.edu/wescourses/2000f/grk101/01/draft/writing_guide/writing_guide.html http://www.kypros.org/LearnGreek/course http://www.ellinikasimera.dartmouth.edu/index.html Videćeš,nije ništa strašno :) | |
| malina | Tuesday 20th of June 2006 01:59:26 AM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by dusicaBG[/i] I svi mi smo nekada bili totalni početnici,ali korak po korak pa ćeš već naučiti nešto.Ja ti predlažem da pogledaš lekcije koje je Panos poslao,kao i naravno sve ostale postove.Moraš prvo da naučiš grčki alfabet.Evo nekih sajtova koji su meni koristili: http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/filog http://www.biblicalgreek.org/grammar/alphabet/greek_alphabet.html http://mkatz.web.wesleyan.edu/wescourses/2000f/grk101/01/draft/writing_guide/writing_guide.html http://www.kypros.org/LearnGreek/course http://www.ellinikasimera.dartmouth.edu/index.html Videćeš,nije ništa strašno :)[/quote] hvala ti puno! meni njihov alfabet izgleda jako komplikovano. | |
| Jani | Tuesday 20th of June 2006 05:16:05 PM |
| - I think these two games are perfect for beginners (btw, we are all still playing them ;) [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=14764]Word Game[/url] [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=14826]Conjugation Game[/url] And as to the alphabet, you\'ll quickly get a grip of it. It shoud be even easier for you as, I suppose, you already know the Cyrillic script. After all, Cyrillic is based on Greek script. :) | |
| malina | Tuesday 20th of June 2006 08:50:37 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by janecito[/i] I think these two games are perfect for beginners (btw, we are all still playing them ;) [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=14764]Word Game[/url] [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/forum/read.php?TID=14826]Conjugation Game[/url] And as to the alphabet, you\'ll quickly get a grip of it. It shoud be even easier for you as, I suppose, you already know the Cyrillic script. After all, Cyrillic is based on Greek script. :)[/quote] Yes I now cyrillic, but serbian cyrillic. It\"s diferent. thank you for games! | |
| Dusica | Tuesday 20th of June 2006 10:30:08 PM |
| - Malina,Janecito thought of Serbian Cyrillic.When you start learning Greek alphabet,you will find many similarities between these two :) | |
| malina | Tuesday 20th of June 2006 11:33:38 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by dusicaBG[/i] Malina,Janecito thought of Serbian Cyrillic.When you start learning Greek alphabet,you will find many similarities between these two :)[/quote] почела сам данас, има сличности. хвала ти за оне странице, супер су. ево и ћирилице. :) | |
| Dusica | Wednesday 21st of June 2006 01:48:58 AM |
| - Ma nema na čemu :) Super što si već počela da učiš.Nadam se da ćeš uskoro početi i da se igraš sa nama :) | |
| malina | Wednesday 28th of June 2006 04:26:38 AM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by dusicaBG[/i] Ma nema na čemu :) Super što si već počela da učiš.Nadam se da ćeš uskoro početi i da se igraš sa nama :)[/quote] pocela sam da ucim alfabet, ali malo me buni jer imaju vise slova I. | |
| Jani | Wednesday 28th of June 2006 09:36:22 PM |
| - You\'re right, there 6 ways of writing this sound in Modern Greek: η, ι, υ, ει, οι, υι This topic already came up at the beginning of this thread. Check page 1. ;) | |
| squeak | Wednesday 28th of June 2006 09:39:56 PM |
| - \"υι\"? I don\'t think I\'ve come across that one yet. | |
| Jani | Wednesday 28th of June 2006 09:46:48 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by squeak[/i] \"υ\"? I don\'t think I\'ve come across that one yet.[/quote] I know it\'s not very frequent. I copied it from my Greek textbook - there was even an example, but I can\'t remember it now. :( | |
| squeak | Wednesday 28th of June 2006 09:54:06 PM |
| - Ευχαριστώ Χάνεσιτο. :) Have you ever come across words that start with combinations like: \"κτ\"? I really struggled with those til I started working at the restaurant. We sell a red peeper and feta cheese dip called \"ktipiti\". Being forced to say it half dozen times a week helped sooooooo much! | |
| Dusica | Thursday 29th of June 2006 01:11:35 PM |
| - Hi Malina,I hope to see you playing with us soon :) | |
| Jani | Sunday 09th of July 2006 05:51:20 PM |
| - [quote][i]Originally posted by squeak[/i] \"υι\"? I don\'t think I\'ve come across that one yet.[/quote] Here is the example from my book... :) υιοθετώ (to adopt) | |
| squeak | Monday 10th of July 2006 05:35:22 AM |
| - Ευχαριστώ Χάνεσιτο. You are wonderful to me :) | |
| Panos | Wednesday 12th of July 2006 04:43:58 PM |
| - [quote]Quote:Originally posted by squeak \"υι\"? I don\'t think I\'ve come across that one yet. Here is the example from my book... υιοθετώ (to adopt) [/quote] Ther is also the word \"υιός\" which is the older form (and the correct one) of the word \"γιός\" (son) that is used in modern Greek. It is not frequent though, you are right. [quote]Have you ever come across words that start with combinations like: \"κτ\"?[/quote] One very common is the word κτίριο=building. Usually this letter combination is said like the letter combination \"χτ\". So, if it is easier for you you can say \"χτυπητή\". It is very usuall to say χτίζω=to build while the right writing is still \"κτίζω\". | |
| squeak | Thursday 13th of July 2006 01:29:57 AM |
| - Ευχαριστώ :D | |
