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roeehFriday 14th of July 2006 04:53:06 PM
I\'m back! - shalom everybody!

after two weeks of serving my country in \"milu\'im\" (reserve army service) i\'m back home and back here.
hopefully, with the situation in our northern border i won\'t have to go again soon...


ladysmyrnaFriday 14th of July 2006 04:55:58 PM
- SHALOM ROEEH!!!

I\'m so glad that you\'re back :) Welcome home :D

I\'m watching what\'s going on in Lebanese border closely. I hope hakol tihiye beseder bekarov!!!
roeehFriday 14th of July 2006 06:50:35 PM
- thank you!

i see you where pretty busy while i was gone... :)
you\'ve posted some really good and interesting lessons.
roeehFriday 14th of July 2006 06:55:02 PM
- and by the way, you should say: \"yihiye beseder\" (יהיה בסדר), since it\'s a general subject. this is maybe the single most dominant concept in israel - don\'t worry, everything will be ok. how? why? at what cost? who will take care of it? - not importanat. yihiye beseder.
it usually doesn\'t...
ladysmyrnaFriday 14th of July 2006 11:19:20 PM
- Thanks for the correction Roeeh :)

Let\'s hope that this time it will be...
nickiSaturday 15th of July 2006 02:27:18 AM
- Shalom Roeeh
I came to this forum by accident (your post was on top of the 10 recent posts) and discovered that you are just 4 days younger than me and I haven’t got the slightest clue how you, as a reserve soldier, must feel know, when everybody is expecting a new war. Fortunately I’m not familiar with suicide bombers or bombardment of Kassams and I hope the latest crisis will cool down soon and your three soldiers will be released immediately.
To make a long story short: Take care! :)
Just in case I want to learn Hebrew (maybe...somewhere down the road), there are not too many native speakers at PB ;)

roeehSaturday 15th of July 2006 03:51:22 PM
- hi nicki

thanks for the support.
i think i feel like every normal person would feel when his home is being attacked without any provocation, and of course i hope, together with everyone here for quieter, and more peaceful days.
makt2000Sunday 16th of July 2006 05:57:13 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by roeeh[/i]


hi nicki

thanks for the support.
i think i feel like every normal person would feel when his home is being attacked without any provocation, and of course i hope, together with everyone here for quieter, and more peaceful days.[/quote]

Also about 80 lebanese civilians were killed by the israeli air raids . Civilians at Gaza Stip can\'t have food or water for over 2 weeks . I guess after all the IDA isn\'t all angels .
EliMonday 17th of July 2006 01:05:22 AM
- Yes, you right! IDA is not an angel. Do you know why? Because IDA (which means Israel Defense Army) is an army that protects my country and to those who want to raise a hand on Israel, IDA, being one of the powerful armies in the world and definitely the most trained, will not treat nicely, lightly speaking.

I really don\'t think that in this forum we should speak about politics, wars and regional conflicts, but since you mentioned that, let me show you another point of view.

You say that more than 80 Lebanese civilians were killed by Israeli air raids. But why don\'t you mention how all that have been started? As you know Israel retreated form Lebanon in May 2000 according to UN resolution. It was declared that there is no demand from both sides, which means that this border should have become peaceful. Israel will place its border forces in its border and Lebanon will place Lebanese army in the southern border with Israel. But Lebanese government couldn\'t enforce this and let Hezbollah, radical military Shiite group be placed instead of the army. It didn\'t bother Israel as long as we have a quiet in our northern border. But Hezbollah didn\'t want to leave Israel in quiet and since May 2000 did dozen of provocation penetrating Israeli border and bombing lightly Israeli villages from time to time with missiles. Israeli response was very weak, because we didn\'t want to escalate situation.
But this time it was just about enough! Without any provocation from Israeli side, terrorists of this group shot a dozen of \"katyusha\" missiles on Israeli villages, shot missiles on Israeli patrol vehicles killing in final 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnapping 2. QUESTION TO MAKT: Can you tell me why??

Israel reacted in the same way as any independent country should do while somebody enters to its territory killing and kidnapping its citizens and shooting missiles on the cities. So what do you think, who is responsible?
You might say that I am right, Hezbollah is responsible to this escalation, but why we bomb Lebanon\'s civilian targets? The answer is very simple. Israel bombs everything that has to do with Hezbollah, especially its offices and bunkers in southern Beirut and south Lebanon where they have their weapon. And where they hide it? In the houses of innocent families in southern Lebanon. We want to crash Hezbollah once and forever and to let them retreat from our border and to bring Lebanon\'s army to these positions. We want also them to return 2 our soldiers. As you pay attention we have war now and during the war, unfortunately, innocent civilians die. But I can tell you FOR SURE: Israel army never ever kills innocent people just like that. My army will never shoot on house where people without any reason are. Unlikely Hezbollah strikes on Israeli cities for only one reason: TO KILL AS MUCH MORE PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. If you ask why we bomb airport, bridges and roads I can tell you that it is a war tactics. We don\'t want them to bring more weapons from Syria and Iran.

As to your second part regarding Gaza strip, Israel suggested to Palestinians to open a \"Kerem Sahlom\" passage with Israel in order to bring all that is needed to them, but they refused saying that they want to have a passage with Egypt to be open. If they were really hungry they wouldn\'t do that.

One of the biggest advantages in knowing more than one language and being able to get information from different sources is the ability to have a view on some political problem from many sides.
I can read information in 4 languages and it gives me a huge advantage on those who have only one. And you should be honest: Arabic media is totally one-sided.

nickiMonday 17th of July 2006 05:41:16 AM
- So, here we go again. Time and again the old question: who started it?! Call me biased but I think Lekker is right! What if Israel does not react? Happy bombing by Kassams from Gaza, Katyushas from Lebanon and in the middle Israel with its Patriots –how long would you stand this?
I feel a little bit guilty for provoking this dispute, sorry for that! Best I come to an end with some appropriate words.
[i]War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn\'t any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone\'s being worse off.
(Krieg ist zuerst die Hoffnung, dass es einem besser gehen wird, hierauf die Erwartung, dass es dem anderen schlechter gehen wird, dann die Genugtuung, dass es dem anderen auch nicht besser geht, und schließlich die Überraschung, dass es beiden schlechter geht.)
Karl Kraus (1874-1936)[/i]



makt2000Monday 17th of July 2006 10:12:53 AM
- Shalom ..
First of all , Lekker I don\'t know why do you use this offensive accent . All I wanted to say is that not only the israelis who suffer . Lebaneses do as well .
I don\'t want to go on this contraversy because I know where it\'s going .

[quote][i]Originally posted by lekker[/i]

You say that more than 80 Lebanese civilians were killed by Israeli air raids .
[/quote]

By the way the number became 130 and even more . Who knows what the next hours will bring ?

[quote][i]Originally posted by lekker[/i]

As you know Israel retreated form Lebanon in May 2000 according to UN resolution. It was declared that there is no demand from both sides, which means that this border should have become peaceful. Israel will place its border forces in its border and Lebanon will place Lebanese army in the southern border with Israel. But Lebanese government couldn\'t enforce this and let Hezbollah, radical military Shiite group be placed instead of the army. It didn\'t bother Israel as long as we have a quiet in our northern border.
[/quote]

The reason why Hezbollah is still placed in the south is that the lebanese army isn\'t so powerful that he can\'t defend the southern border . For the Lebanese Hezbollah is an organization which represented resistance against israeli occupation during the 1982 war . Why is Hezbollah still fighting Israel ? I may not agree with what Hezbollah did lately . However , They think the war isn\'t over . Thousands of Lebanese prisoners are in Israeli prisons . Some of them is in prison for more than 30 years with no hope of getting out soon unless through pressure on Israel . I know Israel says that there is no Lebanese prisoners . Lebanon says there are still prisoners . Here comes the conflict .

[quote][i]Originally posted by lekker[/i]

You might say that I am right, Hezbollah is responsible to this escalation, but why we bomb Lebanon\'s civilian targets? The answer is very simple. Israel bombs everything that has to do with Hezbollah, especially its offices and bunkers in southern Beirut and south Lebanon where they have their weapon. And where they hide it? In the houses of innocent families in southern Lebanon
[/quote]

Is raiding over refugees escaping from their village is a raid over Hezbollah ? I mean the 23 refugees including children and women who were evacuating the town مرحيون \"Merhion\" . That happened on Saturday .

[quote][i]Originally posted by lekker[/i]

As you pay attention we have war now and during the war, unfortunately, innocent civilians die. But I can tell you FOR SURE: Israel army never ever kills innocent people just like that. My army will never shoot on house where people without any reason are. Unlikely Hezbollah strikes on Israeli cities for only one reason: TO KILL AS MUCH MORE PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. If you ask why we bomb airport, bridges and roads I can tell you that it is a war tactics. We don\'t want them to bring more weapons from Syria and Iran.

[/quote]

Hezbollah has a strategy . If Israeli army kills civilians , we will kill civilians . War doesn\'t care about intentions . What is the result ? civilians died . That what counts .
Regarding the bridges , I want to ask you a question . How do smugglers smuggle srugs ? Through airports and bridges ? Of course no . Hezbollah gets weapons barely through the same way . I think destructing Beirut airport has nothing to do with weapons .

[quote][i]Originally posted by lekker[/i]

Israel suggested to Palestinians to open a \"Kerem Sahlom\" passage with Israel in order to bring all that is needed to them, but they refused saying that they want to have a passage with Egypt to be open. If they were really hungry they wouldn\'t do that.
[/quote]

It\'s really a matter of concept . Since the plan of disengagement carried over by Sharon , Israel wanted Kerem Shalom to be the passage with Egypt to have supervision over gaza . Palestinians wants the passage to be an Israel-free one . But I think you can\'t blame the Palestinians . You occupy their land for nearly 40 years and unfortunately there is no sign of solution nearby .

By the way , I read Haaretz newspaper regularly but in English cuz my hebrew still isn\'t that good . I agree Arabic media is one-sided to some degree . But you have to admit it too , Israeli media is one-sided too .

I agree that the forum isn\'t a place we can discuss a dispute which politicians couldn\'t solve for over 50 years . I hope we end this contaversy .
roeehMonday 17th of July 2006 03:52:37 PM
- i sure have some comments on what makt wrote, specially after last night a katyusha rocket fell on my village, and i\'m also sure he (or others) will have comments on what i will write. this argument can go on for ever (and it has been for a few decades now). but i don\'t think this is the right palce to have it.
the governments will probably continue to argue between them, but as i see it, forums like this are the place for the people to make personal connections above (or below, depands on your point of view) the heads of governments. here we do it on the basis of our common love for languages.

finally, i think we can all agree that we all hope for quieter times and for peace to finally come to our wounded region.

just one suggestion to makt: don\'t read \'haaretz\'. it\'s practically the newspaper of the extreme left and doesn\'t really reflect the opinions of more than about 2% of israelis. :)

and in order to return to hebrew business, let me finnish with a quote from the most successful entertainment group is israel ever, \"hagashash hakhiver\":

מי שחושב שהמצב הכללי ביטחוני לא יקבל איזה שינוי אקסלוסיבי, סופי ושיטתי,
ושלא ישא כמו שאומרים גוי אל גוי חרב, בזוקה ו/או אפילו כל לכלוך אחר,
והארץ הזאת סוף סוף תשקוט, אם לא 40 שנה, אז ארבעים יום,
אפילו על שבועיים היינו מתפשרים,
רק שיתנו לו לבנאדם לבוא אל המנוחה ואל הנחלה - שיקום

(if you\'re having dificulties understanding i\'ll try to translate it).

roee
makt2000Monday 17th of July 2006 07:41:25 PM
- I agree with what roeeh said , let\'s not continue this conversation .

Haaretz represents only 2% of Israelis ? I\'m surprised . So how come is it so famous ?? What do you think I should be reading ?

Can you also translate this for me ? Toda .
EliMonday 17th of July 2006 08:08:43 PM
- !שלום
I didn’t want to take offensive accent; I just wanted to show you this conflict from my point of view.
But it is good to know that you read “haaretz”. I personally don’t like this newspaper, because it is boring. I prefer “yediot ahronot” which you can read in English in http://www.ynetnews.com. It will be really interesting to read news from Arabic world in English. Can you suggest me some?
Thanks!


nickiMonday 17th of July 2006 08:20:52 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by roeeh[/i]

מי שחושב שהמצב הכללי ביטחוני לא יקבל איזה שינוי אקסלוסיבי, סופי ושיטתי,
ושלא ישא כמו שאומרים גוי אל גוי חרב, בזוקה ו/או אפילו כל לכלוך אחר,
והארץ הזאת סוף סוף תשקוט, אם לא 40 שנה, אז ארבעים יום,
אפילו על שבועיים היינו מתפשרים,
רק שיתנו לו לבנאדם לבוא אל המנוחה ואל הנחלה - שיקום

(if you\'re having dificulties understanding i\'ll try to translate it).

[/quote]
Yeah, right! As for me I haven’t understood anything. Disappointing but unsurprising as I don’t speak any Hebrew. Poor me! :( So, thanks for speaking English the hole time, it was quite interesting. But I think I won’t post here anymore - don’t won’t to raise any quarrel again!;)
Shalom (means \'Bye\' as well, right?)

EliMonday 17th of July 2006 08:52:54 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by nicki[/i]


[quote][i]Originally posted by roeeh[/i]

מי שחושב שהמצב הכללי ביטחוני לא יקבל איזה שינוי אקסלוסיבי, סופי ושיטתי,
ושלא ישא כמו שאומרים גוי אל גוי חרב, בזוקה ו/או אפילו כל לכלוך אחר,
והארץ הזאת סוף סוף תשקוט, אם לא 40 שנה, אז ארבעים יום,
אפילו על שבועיים היינו מתפשרים,
רק שיתנו לו לבנאדם לבוא אל המנוחה ואל הנחלה - שיקום

(if you\'re having dificulties understanding i\'ll try to translate it).

[/quote]
Yeah, right! As for me I haven’t understood anything. Disappointing but unsurprising as I don’t speak any Hebrew. Poor me! :( So, thanks for speaking English the hole time, it was quite interesting. But I think I won’t post here anymore - don’t won’t to raise any quarrel again!;)
Shalom (means \'Bye\' as well, right?)
[/quote]

Yes, \"shalom\" means \"bye\" as well!
As for you, you are always welcome to post here and in any other place! But it is only because you from Hamburg :)
I was there a month ago during World Cup and I liked your sity very much!

roeehMonday 17th of July 2006 09:02:14 PM
- haaretz is famous because it is the 3rd biggest newspaper in israel. many people read it, but it is regarded as the paper of the extreme left and the overwhelming majoriy of people don\'t agree with the official view of the newspaper.

the two mainstream large newspapers are \"Yediot Akhronot\" (ידיעות אחרונות ) and \"ma\'ariv\" (מעריב ). each of them has an online news portal which is basicly indipendant of the newspaper but actually is almost the same.

yediot:
www.ynet.co.il (hebrew version)
www.ynetnews.com (english version)

ma\'ariv:
www.nrg.co.il (hebrew version. there is no english version that i know of)

another news portals are:
http://news.walla.co.il/
http://news.nana.co.il/


roeehMonday 17th of July 2006 09:14:10 PM
- i tryed to translate it, it\'s probably not as good as the original:

if someone thinks the general-security situation will not see some exclusive, final and systematical change,
and, like they say, peole won\'t raise on each other sword, bazooka and/or any other piece of garbage,
and this country will finally be peaceful, if not for 40 years then for 40 days. we will even compromise for two weeks...
and the human being will be alowed to reach his resting and dwelling place - let him stand up.
nickiTuesday 18th of July 2006 04:30:49 AM
- Glad, I’m from Hamburg! So I am allowed to post here, how kind of you! :)
Shalom Lekker!
Ma ata sax! Hamburg?! Eix avra ne’see’axta v- kama zman ata nimtza kan? Axshav anee m’daber eevreet. Toda internet! (Hameevta shelee betax m’shuneh) :D
That’s all I could find in the World Wide Web, hope it’s correct! Does it make any sense to you? And I really love your alphabet but I’m not able to post it! :(
Btw, which team did you cheer for? Israel wasn’t in tournament! Well, I hope they’ll qualify for the Euro 2008 but...

And thanks for your translation, roeeh! Toda raba :)

EliTuesday 18th of July 2006 01:24:00 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by nicki[/i]


Glad, I’m from Hamburg! So I am allowed to post here, how kind of you! :)
Shalom Lekker!
Ma ata sax! Hamburg?! Eix avra ne’see’axta v- kama zman ata nimtza kan? Axshav anee m’daber eevreet. Toda internet! (Hameevta shelee betax m’shuneh) :D
That’s all I could find in the World Wide Web, hope it’s correct! Does it make any sense to you? And I really love your alphabet but I’m not able to post it! :(
Btw, which team did you cheer for? Israel wasn’t in tournament! Well, I hope they’ll qualify for the Euro 2008 but...

And thanks for your translation, roeeh! Toda raba :)
[/quote]

Hi!
It makes sense, only if:
1.you are men
2.you are rude
3.I am still in Germany
:)
Well, from my childhood I support Argentina and intended to do so this time as well.
Since I study Dutch, I had some sympathies for Holland as well.
Then I got a ticket to Spain-Ukraine match and supported Spain.
But all of them disappointed me :(

Israel will not qualify since out team has totally lack of talent.

nickiTuesday 18th of July 2006 03:13:38 PM
-

!rekkeL שלום ;)

1. What, I am male?! Well, just my personal accent! It’s probably a bit strange – as I said ;)
2. Rude? Come off it! Just for ‘Israel wasn’t in tournament’? Or because of something I said in my flawless Hebrew? S’leexa. Even if I don’t know for what - I apologize! Please, don’t blame me!
3. You don’t say, still here! Wow, that’s what I call a long holiday! Where are you right now? Hamburg, Leipzig,... – sounds like a round trip through Germany. N\'see׳a tova! Hope, that’s more suitable now. :)

I must confess I had some sympathies for Holland as well – although I’m German!!! I even bought a flag of Holland to support them and swam totally against the stream!
And don’t give up hope for your team! No one in Germany (and elsewhere) expected our team to become third. But now we are! :)



EliThursday 20th of July 2006 01:24:09 PM
- I just wanted to say that from the text you wrote in Hebrew sounds like I am in Germany (I am already not!) because you wrote it in the present tense.
By the way I was not only in Hamburg, but also in Lubec, Berlin, Leipzig, Nuremberg and Stuttgart.
It is very surprising to know that some German people (maybe it is only you?) have sympathies to Holland. I know that in football Germany dislikes Holland (and vice versa) not less than Argentina hates Brazil.
I don’t agree with you when you say that nobody expected Germany to reach semi-final. I think that Germany was the best team in this World Cup. Games of German team were fluent and not boring. My friend even put money on them before the tournament.


nickiThursday 20th of July 2006 06:51:22 PM
- Obviously you heard some (OK, [i]all[/i]) Germans singing “Ohne Holland fahrn’ wir nach Berlin” (without Holland we’re going to Berlin), right? ;)
But that’s not dislike! In German we have the saying “Was sich neckt, das liebt sich” (tease the ones you love). And I love these crazy orange people, always in a good mood and peaceful.
I can’t talk for all Germans but I think the relationship between Holland and us is a love-hate relationship with more love than hate in it (unlike Germany/England – that’s everything else but a love affair) Maybe Dutchmen would disagree...
Btw, it wasn’t only me who had a Holland flag, but they disappeared after the eighth final. Not my one, of course! Just turned it and – voila, la tricolore :)
And I really have to meet your super optimistic friend! Hope, he didn’t lose too much money. ;)

Er...sorry Roeeh for occupying your thread!

EliThursday 20th of July 2006 08:22:31 PM
- Yes, you are right! I meant for a sportive competition. And indeed they were very happy in Stuttgart when I was with them. They were singing “Stuttgart is van ons” – “Stuttgart is our” and painted Stuttgart in orange. After the game (against Cote d’Ivoire) they sang all the night in the central plaza of the city. They even gave to every Dutch fan a hat and shorts in orange color with long orange tail and brush on its edge. :p It was really funny!
We had a very happy atmosphere, unlike with English fans that were drinking a beer non-stop and after the game they were so drunk that their face was in their plate.
My friend lost about 20 euro (for me :p) and God knows how much more :p
About tricolore - I never was a Frech fan, so I stayed with Dutch flag in the way it is.

nickiSaturday 22nd of July 2006 04:58:17 AM
- Did you know that they had to take off these shorts before entering the stadium? FIFA banned these shorts because they were sponsored by a wrong brewery and not by the official sponsor Budweiser. Mad, eh?
And for the rest you confirmed my prejudices against English football fans! Yep, I know, I shouldn’t have any prejudices...But why do all English football fans look like Hooligans and are always as drunk as a newt?!
er... [i]*shouldn’t gossip about British fans*[/i]... you probably saw a lot of drunken Germans as well. Hope they all behaved well and gave you a great time here. Especially as our slogan for the World Cup was ‘Die Welt zu Gast bei Freunden’ (the international version was ‘Time to make friends’)

And last question for today, My Lord (I discovered the thread ‘Meaning of names‘) Now, that I know you are such a great Holland fan, your nickname is just the Dutch ‘lekker’ (which is nearly the same in German)??? How disappointing! The whole time I believed in a mysterious Hebrew word... :p

EliMonday 24th of July 2006 02:23:32 AM
- Sorry for disappointing you! I like the way it sounds and it\'s actually a short version for \"lekkerding\". Of course, I could choose \"My Lord\" or just \"Lord\", but then I guess you wouldn\'t speak with me. :)

Germans were super nice to us (me and my friends). Every time we asked for some help they tried to do as much as they can, taking into account that almost no one speaks English and we don\'t speak German. One even invited us to a drink first time he saw us \"because you are from Israel\" as he said.

I knew about the shorts, but it was in the last game if I am not mistaken. Not only shorts but also hats! I hope they had some extra in the bag, otherwise... But as I know them, they didn\'t care even going naked! After the spoken game, many of them took all their clothes off and jumped into the fountain.

nickiMonday 24th of July 2006 04:19:34 PM
- So you try to make us believe that you are rather handsome guy? Very well then! If you say so... ;)
But why shouldn’t I talk to My Lord? I think that’s a real cool meaning of once own name. ‘Lord only knows’ gets a completely new meaning!
Regrettably my real name means noting at all, absolutely nothing! And my nickname isn’t an excess of creativity as well.

And I’m really glad that I don’t have to talk to you. :) Please, don’t take it personally it’s just because of my language skills. My English writing is bad but my speaking is worse, I hated English at school!

Did you recognize that this is the 27th post in this thread? This means ‘I’m back’ is the most popular thread in the Hebrew forum - and it has nothing to do with Hebrew! So I think we should come to an end. Haya na\'eem me\'od.
Lehitraot!


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