Miscellaneous Relaxed Intellectual Discussion Relaxed Intellectual Discussion

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Anonymous
Monday 17th of December 2007 02:50:32 AM
relaxed intellectual forum: Quote:
Paying for PB will give us ....
"Access to a more relaxed and intellectual private Premium Members Discussion made up of some of the top language professionals from around the world. "

Can anyone give me more information about this?

Which top language professionals?
How is the forum more "relaxed"?
And why are the members more "intellectual" than the rest of us?



mayor
Monday 17th of December 2007 04:30:43 AM
NO i can,t but good questions.They got me thinking-mmmm.


Branco
Monday 17th of December 2007 04:26:50 PM
where did you read this? I tried to search for it but I can't seem to be able to find anything on it.


Anonymous
Monday 17th of December 2007 04:30:58 PM
It appears as soon as you try to contact anothr member via mail or pm. It is one of the attractions of paid-up membership.


Branco
Monday 17th of December 2007 04:39:43 PM
Hmm... That's too bad. This will probably create a threshold for many new members who wish to seek contact with members and mean that they will decide not to join.


djr33
Monday 17th of December 2007 10:12:31 PM
I agree fully.

The idea of paying for a membership seems reasonable, if there is something offered. However, it doesn't state what is offered, but simply that something is meaning it may be no more than just communicating with people.

Really, though, my problem with it is that the forum is barely functional something is wrong with the scripting, and the layout on the front page is a complete mess though it's designed to include all the languages, I find it an eye sore, and certainly more harm than gain.

I think there's a lot of potential, though, so I'm casually looking for the proper place to bring that up.
(If a staff member reads this, I'm fairly experienced with PHP and other coding, so I'd be happy to take a look and try to clean things up a bit not trying to cause trouble, as I think this looks like a cool place, with a couple issues.)

Plus, why should we pay to talk to one another? If there is a service supplied by the forum itself, I'd consider paying for that, but just talking to one another... well, I don't think people should need to pay to talk to me.


If there is some need to support the forum, I'd probably be willing to donate $20. It's not the money it's that I just don't really get the point of paying to talk to people or being told I can't.

In fact, I almost did just pay it, but the fact that it's required and restrictive bothers me on principal, so I'm not sure I'd want to pay just for that reason.

The internet is great because it's free, and makes it more powerful for learning, especially for something like languages. I'm sure there are a lot of people who can't afford to pay for this who could contribute to the community greatly.


Anonymous
Tuesday 18th of December 2007 01:41:36 AM
Originally posted by djr33
The idea of paying for a membership seems reasonable, if there is something offered.

Plus, why should we pay to talk to one another? If there is a service supplied by the forum itself, I'd consider paying for that, but just talking to one another... well, I don't think people should need to pay to talk to me.



Quite.
Djr - I am sure you (and all the others here) are agreeable people, but I hope you don't take offence if I decline to pay to talk to you:)
Membership fees are not in themselves objectionable, but I find the description(s) I quoted above vague in the extreme.
I would be very interested in some answers to my above questions. Any of the administrators care to comment? Any information on these points gratefully received!



Joe
Tuesday 18th of December 2007 01:43:06 AM
The bottom line is that PhraseBase has functioned for the past 7 years as a wholly free site and can no longer continue to do so. We fully expected that (perhaps many) members would not be happy with this decision, and we do regret that. Regret, however, unfortunately doesn't pay the server bills.

There is no arm-twisting fr anyone to pay for anything. Access to the language forums, which have been the source of learning and study the entire time, is still completely free. We welcome anyone to post freely in the forums, to either ask questions they'd like answered by members and administrators alike, or to provide their knowledge to the other students on the site. Thus, even people who cannot afford to pay CAN still contribute greatly to the PB community as a whole.

djr33 - I'd like to know more about the problems you are experiencing, and how the front page is a "complete mess". I've opened the main Home and the forums Index page in both Internet Explorer and Firefox, and it's opening fine for both browsers.

As for including all the languages on the Discussion Index - well, that's something that we're just not going to be able to please everyone on. We had received numerous complaints in the past about not having each language listed - with people claiming they couldn't find their language of interest (particularly problematic for folks who knew that wanted to learn a certain language, but didn't know which language family or category to look under if it wasn't listed directly). Thus, the decision was made to list every language offered at this time, and to include flags before each. As you can well see, we are still in the process of finding flags for some languages. Some languages do not have flags at all, and will likely remain with the current question marked/unknown default flag image.

Since it was asked, the proper place to bring up such issues is the [url=http://www.phrasebase.com/discuss/board.php?FID=346]Site Support and Member Feedback Discussion


Anonymous
Tuesday 18th of December 2007 02:04:45 AM
Hmm - all valid points Joe, but it doesn't really answer my question.....


djr33
Tuesday 18th of December 2007 03:36:37 AM
Pival, that was my point entirely you shouldn't need to pay to contact me. Not only do I think it should be free, but it's unlikely you'd pay anyway. I completely understand.

Joe, I'd be happy to talk to you over IM, or by PM or something if you'd prefer the conversation not be public (or just move the thread to the right forum I don't think I'm really hijacking it, sorry if that seems the case).
Anyway, since this is the only route I have at the moment, I'll post.

First, I understand needing some sort of support. But what exactly makes this required? Hosting? I might be able to help there.

Second, I just don't like not being able to talk to one another via PM, etc.

I find it very strange that the phrases are freely available, but we need to pay before we can talk to each other. The reverse would follow any trend I've seen on other sites.


Now, what exactly is the result of paying? We can send emails/PMs to one another?

There may be something else that I haven't seen. I'm still getting used to the forum.



As for the technical stuff, there are two major problems:
1. Though inconsistent, there are serious back end problems with the forum installation. Upon reaching certain pages, especially when not signed in, it seems, php include() errors are present
Warning: main(../japanese/discuss/discuss_header.php) [function.main]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/25312/domains/phrasebase.com/html/discuss/board.php on line 426
Stylesheet and other elements are also missing.
2. The layout of the front page is horrible. I realize you're making an effort to have space for each language and all activity, but it's just a headache. The latest posts lists are too busy for me to find them useful, and the huge list of languages is also overwhelming. I can understand the languages though each person wants something different. But the page is just too long. What about the activity lists? I realize this is stylistic, but it's just SO busy. Is that really needed?
3. The forum itself has some bizarre 'features' and functionality that I'm not yet familiar with, but seems like it could be improved upon. These aren't huge issues, but small things in the layout, or navigation.
For example, the flow of many threads seems off. Have a lot of posts been deleted, or is something wrong with the system?
Example: http://www.phrasebase.com/discuss/read.php?TID=19992

I tried to contact Jeff, through his site, because I can't yet through the forum, about helping with the "LAMP programming" work. I have some experience, especially with PHP.

Also, the board just seems to slow to load. There may be any number of reasons between the server and my connection, though, so I'm not sure that's a problem (or a permanent one). If so, I again would be willing to help figure out some hosting.

Thus, even people who cannot afford to pay CAN still contribute greatly to the PB community as a whole.Right, but I can't talk to someone I meet on here by IM?
I can use all of the other services YOU offer, but I need to pay YOU to talk to them? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I'd rather pay you to use your services and be able to talk to whomever I'd like freely.


I'm not trying to cause trouble. I'd like to help if I can. But being new here, some of the things just seem very odd.


And, if there is any other benefit to paying, what is that, or where can I read about the advantages?



As a final note, I don't know why I'm so bothered by the payment. It just seems forced. On principal, I don't feel like I should have to pay in order to talk with people. It's the internet, and it's supposed to be free for networking. Services cost something, sure, but networking?
Anyway, wouldn't it be better to suggest donations from members? If even a small percent of the regular members donated $5 every so often, it would be much more than the one time fee of $20. Plus, if the benefits are really worth it, it would encourage people to donate, right? Have a good thing, ask for support, see what happens? Or did you already try that?
I'd be much happier donating because I like it (after trying it, and I think I would like it), than just paying because you say it'll be cool, and that I can't talk directly with anyone until I do.


By the way, you should really allow contacting mods/admins before paying, or there's no way to really ask a question ABOUT paying.



Most importantly, what about the fact that this site is meant to be a networking tool for everyone, ESPECIALLY from likely poorer nations with rarer languages? There are plenty of people who speak English, French, ..., Mandarin, and even Bulgarian. But what about some language with only 1,000 speakers? Some language of a small island? A rare dialect of Arabic? How can those people pay. If I pay, then I can also assume I won't be able to network with them.



EDIT:
Here's a visual for my point on the main page:
http://ci-pro.com/misc/full.jpg
And with the recent activity chopped off, a lot more reasonable:
http://ci-pro.com/misc/nolists.jpg
Note that this is at only 33%.


Another thought that crosses my mind is that you could have a dropdown menu for any language, saving a LOT of space, then organize it any way you want, with no fear that anyone would be left out.
I'd be happy to help explore options.


Mery
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 12:23:16 AM
Now, what exactly is the result of paying? We can send emails/PMs to one another?

Yes, you can contact anyone by PM or e-mail, but that's not all. We put you in touch with our language administrators (on request). Language administrators are available to answer all the questions you may have about the languages you are learning.

Also, what you might not know, we have 37 people working on translating and recording their voice for the e-phrasebook. The phrasebook counts more than 4000 words and phrases.

When members purchase a premium membership, it also pays language administrators for their work.


djr33
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 01:02:07 AM
Thanks for the reply Mery. I also received a PM from Joe, answering some of my questions.

I did sign up and the account was just activated, so I'll see how that works out.

The phrasebase seems quite reasonable for a fee. I don't have any issue with that. The limited contact between individuals is what bothers/ed me.


Anonymous
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 01:13:06 AM
Why is nobody willing (or able?) to answer my questions? Incidentally this is what the thread is about......


Axystos
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 02:08:17 AM
Originally posted by Mery

So, when members purchase a premium membership, it also pays language administrators for their work.
You mean you get paid for your administrator work?


Joe
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 02:35:56 AM
Originally posted by Axystos
You mean you get paid for your administrator work?

Language admins will be paid for their work on translating the site into their native language (ultimately, PB will be published in each and every language is encompasses, much like Wikipedia has) and for completing the translations of phrases and words sections, as well as ultimately recording audio for each and every phrase/word in the phrasebook. It is a large amount of work... Mery (who's the Language Admin liason) will know the exact number of translations each admin does - I do believe though that there are well into the thousands of translations.

The membership fee will be broken down into covering typical operating costs for any website (server fees for both the forums and classroom) and to pay the language admins for their translation work.

Keep in mind, up until the enacting of this, NO ONE has been getting paid for anything, and operating costs were being paid for directly out of pocket.


Anonymous
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 02:39:42 AM
Quote:
Paying for PB will give us ....
"Access to a more relaxed and intellectual private Premium Members Discussion made up of some of the top language professionals from around the world. "
Can anyone give me more information about this?

Which top language professionals?
How is the forum more "relaxed"?
And why are the members more "intellectual" than the rest of us?


You know..the fact that nobody seems able or willing to answer these questions might start leading me to think that it is all just meaningless advertising talk. So how about an answer folks, to allay my sordid suspicions:)



Joe
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 02:47:59 AM
Pavel (Neil), I am not about to be drawn into a discussion about who I (we) deem to be "intellectual" or "professional" etc.

I'm sorry for the terse tone, but quite simply, I resent the implications of your post. We are trying to make this site work, nothing more. You seem to have already made up your mind as to things going on, so I won't try to "allay your sordid suspicions". If you wish to read deeply into things, that is entirely your prerogative.


Anonymous
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 03:15:12 AM
No sorry, Joe, I haven’t made up my mind at all. It is perfectly clear to me that providing a phrase translation service like yours deserves to be rewarded. This in itself is a worthy cause. I have no objection to this at all.

However, this is a simple question. You are advertising a product with the above language. This is your (or PB’s) language, not mine. Quite simply I am asking you to define what you mean by your advertising slogan. Can you do this?



mayor
Wednesday 19th of December 2007 08:06:54 AM
So no pay, no play in the learning dept of exchange with P membs?Only posts an reading for non paying members?Hi pavel1 couldn,t take on the dare try,d but no pm or mail out.Will have to dust of my wallet..


Anonymous
Friday 21st of December 2007 03:25:36 AM
obviously not....sad, very sad:(



Anonymous
Saturday 22nd of December 2007 03:34:46 AM
What's this all about then?


mayor
Monday 24th of December 2007 01:03:06 PM
?: Is this the place to be relaxed AAAAND intellectual?
I,m feeling relaxed but not intellectual...MMM could it be to many kangaroos loose in the top paddock?


Anonymous
Monday 24th of December 2007 08:15:18 PM
"relaxed intellectualism" an interesting new concept!


mayor
Tuesday 25th of December 2007 09:08:40 AM
Yes i like the sound of that-"relaxed intellectualism" AAAnnD individualism.Last 3 letters ism- inside me.


Anonymous
Sunday 06th of January 2008 06:06:57 AM
and?????


Anonymous
Sunday 06th of January 2008 06:15:29 AM
Maybe it would encourage people to join if we knew how many paid-up members there were - What do you all think?


Anonymous
Tuesday 08th of January 2008 09:15:44 PM
LOL. well mayor, I think I know the feeling, don't worry. But as for mysel at this very moment, I'm feeling intellectual but not relaxed.

Anyway, too much "breather" to start the year out.
Let me wish everybody Happy New Year regardless. (And oh, Merry Christmas too.) I was in Pluto for a month so I missed the happenings here.


Axystos
Wednesday 09th of January 2008 01:31:45 AM
Hi Joe,

Originally posted by JoeThere is no arm-twisting fr anyone to pay for anything. Access to the language forums, which have been the source of learning and study the entire time, is still completely free.
Will it remain free in the future, too? And/or: are there plans to make other services provided here paid services, too? The chatroom, for example?

:)



Joe
Wednesday 09th of January 2008 02:09:34 AM
The forums themselves (Language, General, or otherwise) will remain as open content and free to paying or non-paying members.

I'm not positive on whether or not classrooms will be a feature of the paid membership.

You will notice some changes to the classrooms however - noticeably that instead of a single classroom where everyone logs in to (which at times was a veritable Tower of Babel, with several languages at once going on) , there are already in place language specific classrooms (based on what you set your "right-side" flag to - your target learning language). This is so that we can hold formalized classes for multiple languages, at the same time if necessary. Right now, any classes are still relatively informal, but if you access a classroom, you'll notice a link for class schedules. As soon as we get dedicated teachers and schedules, you'll be able to access lesson schedules for each language.




Anonymous
Wednesday 09th of January 2008 04:02:24 PM
So where goes the fee Joe?


Joe
Wednesday 09th of January 2008 07:40:34 PM
Originally posted by ellem84So where goes the fee Joe?

Read on page 1 of this thread, there are already a few posts describing this...


Anonymous
Thursday 10th of January 2008 05:26:00 AM
Ok I will try one more time, maybe there is someone at PB who is willing or able to answer my question:

We are being offered (in exchange for our money) access to some of the

"top language professionals from around the world"

My question is: Who are these people?

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask this, despite what Joe may think.

Please bear in mind that I am not questioning PBs right to charge for what is a valuable language service. PB is a worthy institution offering a reasonable service for what seems a moderate charge.

So - is there anybody at PB who can answer my question?


jvz8a
Thursday 10th of January 2008 01:35:56 PM
me


And that addresses both questions in that post :p :D


Anonymous
Thursday 10th of January 2008 01:46:08 PM
:)


Axystos
Friday 11th of January 2008 12:42:32 AM
@Joe re chatroom:

there are already in place language specific classrooms (based on what you set your "right-side" flag to - your target learning language). This is so that we can hold formalized classes for multiple languages, at the same time if necessary.
Language specific classrooms are already in place? So if my right-side flag is set to spanish, I wouldn't see persons with, say, the russian flag as right-side flag?
And is there an easy way of switching between language chatrooms? :)

Originally posted by jvz8a

me
What is the basis of an election as 'top language professional'? Which diplomas and capabilities does one need regarding teaching languages?



Joe
Friday 11th of January 2008 12:54:08 AM
Originally posted by Axystos
@Joe re chatroom:
Language specific classrooms are already in place? So if my right-side flag is set to spanish, I wouldn't see persons with, say, the russian flag as right-side flag?
And is there an easy way of switching between language chatrooms? :)


Yes, Axystos, that's hopw it should work, So - when you set your right-side flag to Russian, or Spanish, or Tagalog, whatever - you should go to a separate classroom for each, and once people start using them, you should find different people in each room. Right now, many aren't getting much use, so the most you'll see is different text in each room from the folks who had been there previously (and a bust of "test" posts by me, making sure each was up and running). Ultimately, as we recruit teachers to handle online classes, the rooms will become more active. You can still invite people into the classrooms as well, you'll see an "INVITE" link under the online members' names on the right-hand side of the classroom screen.

To my knowledge, right now it takes switching your target language back and forth to be able to enter each different classroom - although I'm not positive that that's the only way to do that.

As the members use the classrooms, please alert us to any bugs or errors you may come across - as you can tell, some of these features are still fairly new and being worked out...


Axystos
Sunday 13th of January 2008 11:44:28 PM
Originally posted by Joe

Yes, Axystos, that's hopw it should work, So - when you set your right-side flag to Russian, or Spanish, or Tagalog, whatever - you should go to a separate classroom for each,
I tried it just now by changing the flag to Russian, then to Turkish and then to Korean, but every time I went back to the chat room, the same person was already there. So either he was following me, or the system doesn't work properly, yet (or, of course, I stuffed things up :)).

PS. Swedish seems to be missing in the list.

To my knowledge, right now it takes switching your target language back and forth to be able to enter each different classroom - although I'm not positive that that's the only way to do that.
Well, a drop down menu next to the chat window would be nice, preferably with information on how many people are already in the various rooms. :)

Although, to be honest, I haven't seen many people in the chat recently (or on the forum, for that matter), so you might not want to create too many language chats, otherwise people will get really scattered.


mayor
Thursday 24th of January 2008 04:48:37 PM
Hi ellem 84,long time no see:)


mayor
Thursday 24th of January 2008 04:50:18 PM
Where is pluto?


Anonymous
Thursday 24th of January 2008 07:17:39 PM
seriously mayor, i have no idea. lol. so are u sending me a koala bear yet?


mayor
Friday 25th of January 2008 06:47:03 PM
How much can a koala bear? How about another postcard:)


Anonymous
Saturday 26th of January 2008 02:45:05 AM
Nice to see everyone's getting into the spirit of things! This post is getting more relaxed by the minute:)


Anonymous
Saturday 26th of January 2008 10:17:10 AM
im glad it is mr simpson, surprisingly. hehe

mayor, a postcard would be nice :)


mayor
Saturday 26th of January 2008 12:56:11 PM
Maybe even a little stuffed toy koala.ellem:)if your a good girl.


Marja
Saturday 26th of January 2008 01:11:05 PM
hehe, I have a stuffed kookaburra that makes the laughing call when you squeeze its tummy :D


Anonymous
Saturday 26th of January 2008 04:21:23 PM
All kangaroos koalas postcards gratefully received:)



mayor
Saturday 26th of January 2008 09:07:06 PM
Can do "Hommer" need address though?


mayor
Saturday 02nd of February 2008 06:58:32 AM
Hello :)


Anonymous
Saturday 02nd of February 2008 07:25:15 PM
Why is PB so slow????


mayor
Tuesday 05th of February 2008 10:47:57 AM
no idea!


Anonymous
Saturday 09th of February 2008 02:20:00 AM
Well it’s time to say goodbye! Many thanks to the people I have got to know here and good luck to you all – but I am leaving and won’t be coming back, I’m afraid!
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!


Axystos
Saturday 09th of February 2008 05:02:25 AM
I guess that was pavel1?

Bye!


mayor
Saturday 09th of February 2008 05:11:53 AM
I miss his photo already:(


beepeedeep
Tuesday 02nd of December 2008 04:28:23 AM
Hey! What's this thread all about? Seems kinda weird to me! Anybody know?

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