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Friday 16th of November 2007 07:23:07 PMAceasta sau aceast─â?:
What would be the reason for someone to use the demonstrative pronouns from the left side over the right side? To my understanding, they have the same meaning.
Aceasta, aceea - aceast─â, acea
Acestea, acelea - aceste, acele
Acesta, acele - acest, acel
Ace┼čtia, aceia - ace┼čti, acei
Aceasta carte - this(f) book
Aceast─â carte - this(f) book
Ace┼čtia c├óini - these(m) dogs
Ace┼čti c├óini - these(m) dogs
Saturday 17th of November 2007 03:45:00 AM
You are right, there is no significant difference between the demonstrative + noun(aceast─â carte) and noun + demonstrative(cartea aceasta).
The Romanian demonstrative, unlike English, can take different forms, depending on gender and number.
Another difference refers to the placement of the demonstrative as to the noun, in Romanian it can either precede or follow the noun.
acest b─âiat(this boy) - noun without article
(this boy) - noun with definite article and the demonstrative with additional particle "a"
Acest b─âiat este ├«nalt/This boy is tall.
B─âiatul acesta este ├«nalt/This boy is tall.
*masculine - acela not acele
acest/acesta(this) - aceste/acestea(these)
acel/acela(that) - acele/acelea(those)
I hope it helps!
Saturday 17th of November 2007 04:08:52 AM
And thanks for correcting me with acele->acela.
So if I understand you correctly, if you place the pronoun after the noun you will 1) always use the noun including the definite article and 2) you always use the pronoun ending with the a (ie acesta). And if the pronoun precedes the noun, then you use the the other (ie acest).
Sorry if that is a bit hard to follow... It would be easier if I could refer to either list by a name. Is there a word that describes both instances of pronoun usage?
Thanks for your help! :)
Saturday 17th of November 2007 08:08:55 AM
I hope you don't mind me asking another question.
Under what condition would one chose "acest b─âiat" over "b─âiatul acesta" and vice versa? Personal preference? Writing / speaking?
Saturday 17th of November 2007 10:07:52 PM
Yes, you have understood very well!
There is no condition, both options have the same meaning and you can choose one of them, as your wish. The first one is more easier:)
Monday 19th of November 2007 06:47:33 PM
Mul┼úumesc Lina! ├«n┼úeleg acum.
Tuesday 20th of November 2007 06:14:18 AM
nu ├«n┼úeleg acum :(:( Well, maybe....
Lina, Sorry to keep nagging on something that is probably much easier than I am making it.
With reference to kenny's "this, that game". From the understanding I got from your post, does that mean that we were using the wrong version of 'this/that' in the game?
Unless of course each of the following is correct romanian:
If this is true, than my unstanding will be complete. ...hopefully :)
Wednesday 21st of November 2007 01:59:35 PM
Don't worry, you understand better and better/Nu te ├«ngrijora, ├«ntelegi din ce in ce mai bine.
It's seems easy but isn't:)
To understand completly you just need to make the difference between the demonstrative pronoun and demonstrative adjective!
In Dominick's game we practice just the demonstrative pronoun.
For better understanding I'll give you the demonstrative pronoun forms and demonstrative adjective as well.
1. Acesta este mai interesant / This is more interesting
*Acesta - it's a demonstrative pronoun which replace a name
*What is more interesting? This is more interesting / Ce este mai interesant? Acesta este mai interesant.
* The demonstrative pronoun
Proximity : this/these
Vlad este aici / Vlad is here.
El este aici / He is here.
Acesta este Vlad/ This is Vlad.
Vlad ┼či Bogdan sunt aici / Vlad and Bogdan are here.
Ei sunt aici / They are here.
Ace┼čtia sunt Vlad ┼či Bogdan / These are Vlad and Bogdan.
Ana este aici / Anne is here.
Ea este aici / She is here.
Aceasta este Ana / This is Anne.
Ana ┼či Maria sunt aici / Anne and Maria are here.
Ele sunt aici / They are here.
Acestea sunt Ana ┼či Maria / These are Ana and Maria.
Dic┼úionarul este pe mas─â / The dictionary is on the table.
Dictionarul este aici / The dictionary is here.
Acesta este dic┼úionarul / This is the dictionary.
Dic┼úionarele sunt pe mas─â / The dictionaries are on the table.
Dic┼úionarele sunt aici / The dictionaries are here.
Acestea sunt dic┼úionarele / These are the dictionaries.
Remoteness : that, those
Vlad este acolo / Vlad is there.
He is there / El este acolo.
Acela este Vlad.
Vlad ┼či Bogdan sunt acolo / Vlad and Bogdan are there.
Ei sunt acolo / They are there.
Aceia sunt Vlad ┼či Bogdan.
Ana este acolo / Anne is there.
Ea este acolo / She is there.
Aceea este Ana / That is Anne.
Ana ┼či Maria sunt acolo / Anne and Maria are there.
Ele sunt acolo / They are there.
Acelea sunt Ana ┼či Maria / Those are Anne and Maria.
Dic┼úionarul rom├ón este pe raft / The Romanian dictionary is on the shelf.
Dic┼úionarul rom├ón este acolo / The Romanian dictionary is there.
Acela este dic┼úionarul rom├ón / That is Romanian dictionary.
Dic┼úionarele rom├óne┼čti sunt pe raft / The Romanian dictionaries are on the shelf.
Dic┼úionarele rom├óne┼čti sunt acolo / The Romanian dictionaries are there.
Acelea sunt dic┼úionarele rom├óne┼čti / Those are Romanian dictionaries.
1. Acest subiect este mai interesant / This subject is more interesting
2. Subiectul acesta este mai interesant / This subject is more interesting
In this case we have two options, as I told you, these sentences have the same meaning.
*acest/acesta - it's a pronominal adjective which don't replace a name but determined it, and has an attribute value
*Which subject is more interesting? This subject / Care subiect este mai interesant? Acest subiect or Subiectul acesta.
The demonstrative adjective
*Proximity :this, these
m/sg. : b─âiatul acesta / acest b─âiat
m/pl. : b─âie┼úii ace┼čtia / ace┼čti b─âie┼úi
f/sg. : fata aceasta / aceast─â fat─â
f/pl. : fetele acestea / aceste fete
n/sg. : scaunul acesta / acest scaun
n/pl. : scaunele acestea / aceste scaune
*remoteness : that, those
m/sg. : b─âiatul acela / acel b─âiat
m/pl. : b─âie┼úii aceia / acei b─âie┼úi
f/sg. : fata aceea / acea fata
f/pl. : fetele acelea / acele fete
n/sg. : scaunul acela / acel scaun
n/pl. : scaunele acelea / acele scaune
If something is not clear don't hesitate to ask:)
Wednesday 21st of November 2007 09:25:53 PM
I will read through this several times and if I have any questions I will certainly ask. Thanks for putting the time to explain this to me.
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