Romanian Dear Self Practice.......

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La_Pluie
Tuesday 08th of March 2005 04:10:08 PM
Dear Self: Alright, so I'm just going to start practicing here in this thread... I just started studying Romanian like, er, two days ago.

Background: The main reason I'm studying this language is because I have a good friend who is a Romanian exchange student, and she's going back home soon. I like her so much that I'd like to visit Romania in the future, and I'd also like to learn more about this country/culture now that I know a little. Now that I've started studying, I really like the language, but it's intimidating. This is only the third language that I've counted to a hundred in, and it seems like a bunch of tongue-twisters!

O stea... Avem steaua. Sunt proastă.

Eu: Unde sunt?
Anca: Eşti acolo.
Eu: Nu, sunt aici. El e acolo.
Anca: Cine?
Eu: Nu ştiu... Unde suntem?
Anca: Franţa.
Eu: Franţa? Nu, niciodată!
Anca: De ce niciodată?
Eu: Nu ştiu, nu ştiu! ... Vorbeşte engleză?
Anca: Niciodată. :)

Anca: Bună! Cum te cheamă?
Eu: Mă cheamă Pluie-de-mars... câţi ani ai?
Anca: Am şaisprezece ani. Şi tu?
Eu: Cincisprezece.
Anca: Mişto.

Eu: Bună, ce faci?
Anca: Bine. Şi tu?
Eu: Foarte bine.
Am o carte!
Anca: Nu...!
Eu: Da!

Okay, I'm done for now. Some of that was sort of an "inside joke," so it's not as prost to me as it is to you. ;)

Feel free to comment... point and laugh... if you're bored or something. I'm not going to ask someone to help me or anything because I don't know enough yet to be any more than a burden.


rbruma
Tuesday 08th of March 2005 04:31:45 PM
Great message. The conversations lack sense so much that they remind me of the theatre of the absurd.

Good luck in learning the language. If you have any questions, post them. It's really not so hard, at least to grasp the basics.


La_Pluie
Tuesday 08th of March 2005 05:20:37 PM
...: Yes, true... Now that you mention it, it reminds me of e.e.cummings.

Mulţumesc. Well, I hope I manage to get down a good bit of the basics within a few months. My friend leaves in less than three months, and then I have a month or two before I must start on Russian.

A fi sau n'a fi... Is that correct?


rbruma
Tuesday 08th of March 2005 08:29:02 PM
... and of the Marx Brothers :)

'A fi sau a nu fi' would be correct. (litt. 'to not be'). What you said is intelligible, however.


La_Pluie
Wednesday 09th of March 2005 01:05:32 AM
Mulţumesc! A fi sau a nu fi... româneşte.

Ea are şaisprezece ani. Azi, am cincisprezece ani. Mâine avem şaisprezece ani.
Băiatul are optsprezece ani.

Eu: Eşti prietena mea?
Anca: Da.
Eu: Nu e adevărat!
Anca: Vorbim. Suntem prietene.

Okay, I can't go on... I'm going to make some tests for myself. I'll post a link later for other beginners.


rbruma
Wednesday 09th of March 2005 05:33:42 PM
1. "Eşti prietena mea" (not 'prietenă'; the noun is supposed to be articulated)

2. "Nu e adevărat" or "Nu-i adevărat" (never "N'e adevărat")


La_Pluie
Thursday 10th of March 2005 03:49:52 AM
Umm... Is that the way it's always written, prietena? And of course I believe you, but I read on a site that it could be contracted... What's going on here?

Dar mulţumesc... again.

Azi, am şi şaisprezece ani! :)


Luludya738
Thursday 10th of March 2005 06:07:51 AM
1. "Prietenă" is writen like this when it doesn't recieve a definite article. Basicaly, we articulate the nouns when we give more information about them. And that is (most likely) when they are followed by a possesive pronoun, (like "mea" from your example) or by a relative one, like "care" (who, which, that). We say: "Prietena care a venit" ("The friend who came") not "Prietenă care a venit" which would be transalated as "Friend who came". The animate nouns which don't recieve a definite article, are usually used with an indefinite one, case in which you will say: "O prietenă a venit" ("A friend came"). All indefinite articles are placed in front of the nouns, reason for which you don't need to change its structure as it happens when using a definite article.

2. Yes, the word "nu" can be contracted but only in certain cases, which doesn't include the one you mentioned. I will give you only one example so as to avoid entering into details which will confuse you: when "nu" is followed by the verb "to have". "Nu am temperatură" or "N-am temperatură" ("I don't have temperature"), "Nu a venit" or "N-a venit" ("He/she didn't come"). And we don't use the ' for such cases. When we speak about this type of contractions, we use -. The ' is used rarely, in cases about which you'll probably learn later on. If you want my advice, so as not to make mistakes, you should better avoid contractions for the moment.

Untill next time, good luck with your studying ;)


La_Pluie
Thursday 10th of March 2005 12:48:35 PM
Ah... Mulţumesc foarte mult. I had read about the definite article but not memorized it yet and didn't know about it being required with the possessive.

So that's it... I'll avoid the contraction for now.

Anca: Bună. Ce faci?
Eu: Studiez româneşte.
Anca: Aha! Văd. Vreau să ajut.
Eu: Da! Te roooog.
**tombe**

româneşte - Is this articulated or not?

Also, I'd like to know the feminine form of "prost." This word is an important part of my daily life. ;)

Tank you, tank you (Romanian accent :D ).


rbruma
Thursday 10th of March 2005 02:33:37 PM
1. "Studiez româneşte" is enough, there's no need to add "eu" in front of it, it seems redundant since the person is already clear from the ending of the verb (same thing in Italian, not in English however)

2. "româneşte" is an adverb, not a noun, so it cannot be articulated or not. It means "in Romanian" or something like this ("romanianly", to keep the initial note of absurdity :)

3. "prost" - "proastă" (fem sg) - "proşti" (masc pl.) - "proaste" (fem. pl.)

4. Last but not least: LA MULŢI ANI!


La_Pluie
Thursday 10th of March 2005 02:52:19 PM
1. Okay, if you insist... I've studied Spanish in school, but I never really got the hang of omitting the pronoun. I like to have it there. :P But Romanian is important, unlike Spanish, so I will obey.

2. Oh, cool... We should do that in English, too... Do you speak Englishly? What about Romanianly? I speak Frenchly!

3. Excellent... Sunt proastă! I want to translate something my friend Anca said to me in English... I can't do it yet, but it's going to be great.

4. Mulţumesc. :) Sunteţi foarte plăcut.

So much to do... verb conjugations, tenses, articulation, pronunciation, pluralism, genders, and even vocabulary. I really need a dictionary... should've asked for one for my birthday. All I got was some lottery tickets and smelly flowers and Christian statues. Yuck. Okay, I'm lying... I did get to go see Les Misérables with Anca on Saturday... That's what I call a gift.

Anca! Unde eşti? Învăţ româneşte! Vezi?!


rbruma
Thursday 10th of March 2005 03:33:28 PM
1. It should be easier to throw away something than to keep it. :)

2. "Sunteţi foarte plăcut" sounds nice, but "drăguţ" or something like that would have been better. The feeling that I am enjoyable boosts my moral this morning, though. :)

3. "Învăţ", not 'Invatez'. Spor la treabă în continuare!


La_Pluie
Friday 11th of March 2005 03:53:30 AM
1. Would it be easier to throw away your native language than to keep it?

Okay, sunteţi foarte drăguţ. How exactly would you translate drăguţ to English?

Învăţ româneşte! Wow... The verb conjugator told me something very different. Is that the regular present tense, or is there something I'm missing here?


Jeremy87
Friday 11th of March 2005 06:50:39 AM
a very useful and fun conjugator is http://www.verbix.com/languages/romanian.shtml

also the dictionary i have has a verb conjugator, though verbix is better
http://www.dictionare.com/english/dictionaries.htm

-a can be conjugated either way. I can't really explain how you can tell when to conjugate them. I only know that if an -a verb consonant ends with a c or g, it's an -ez/ezi/ează etc. ending with adding an h to the c or g to keep the same sound. e.g a parca (to park)

eu parchez
tu parchezi
el/ea parchează
noi parcăm
voi parcaţi
ei/ele parchează

Also an -a with the stem ending in an -i (studia for example) keeps the i and has the ez/ezi/ endings with the exception on the "noi" conjugation. Instead of ăm, it's 'em', and ează is instead "ază"

eu studiez
tu studiezi
el/ea studiază
noi studiem
voi studiaţi
ei/ele studiază

I hope I didn't confuse you too much.


rbruma
Friday 11th of March 2005 03:54:02 PM
1. No, I suppose not.

2. "drăguţ" would be best translated as "nice"

3. The verbs in "-a" belong to two main categories: some take the "-ez-/-eaz-" group between the ending and the stem, some don't. I am not aware of any rules to help decide which group a particular verb belongs into, I guess a good grammar and a helpful friend are your best options at the moment. :)

4. a învăţa = to learn (sometimes also "to teach")

învăţ, înveţi, învaţă, învăţăm, învăţaţi, învaţă

It's a good example of a rather complicated verb. Compare with:

a cânta = to sing or to play an instrument

cânt, cânţi, cântă, cântăm, cântaţi, cântă




La_Pluie
Saturday 12th of March 2005 01:40:18 AM
A învăţa...

I typed a message earlier, but I was trying to figure out how to write something and lost what I typed... so I'm not going to retype it all...

Here's the link to my site where I make tests for myself... to be used at one's own risk.

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/elenia/eormengrund.html

Mulţumesc, prietenii mei. Trebuie să practic româneşte acum.

Eu: Anca, ce faci?
Anca: Fac ceva.
Eu: Ah! Fac şi ceva.

Really... Cum se spune "what are you doing?"


enemigo
Saturday 12th of March 2005 04:04:37 AM
What are you doing = Ce faci?
How are you = Ce mai faci?


enemigo
Saturday 12th of March 2005 04:09:51 AM
Originally posted by Jeremy87


a very useful and fun conjugator is http://www.verbix.com/languages/romanian.shtml

- Great! That's the thing I need.

Mulţumesc frumos, Jeremy87. Asta e lucru care îmi trebuie.






La_Pluie
Saturday 12th of March 2005 04:23:02 AM
Beware of that conjugator... It might lie to you.

Ce faci? = what are you doing?
??
I thought ce mai faci was formal and ce faci informal, both for "how are you?" That's what it says [url=http://rolessons.bizhat.com/greetings.html]here anyway. This is probably not the best source of truth because my Romanian friend said that no one says nu bine, but we asked each other "ce faci?" after looking at this page, so I'm pretty sure that part is at least half of the story.


sandman
Saturday 12th of March 2005 01:06:47 PM
well, since noone noted it, i started to doubt in what i considered natural and right %)

is 'învăţ româneşte' rather meaning that someone is learning something in some special, romanian kind of the way ?
i guess, it might be a short variant of the 'învăţ să vorbesc româneşte', but is it natural to make such omission of the verb here ? since it might be some other verb, such as 'dansez' for example %) is one likely to get the question 'ce înveţi româneşte ?' when he say like that ?

i thought that the short form 'învăţ româna' (from 'învăţ limba română') is more natural and not so ambigous (i mean, one would rather understand that there's 'limbă' omitted here than anything else).

i'd love to see any comments on this. thanks in advance %)


rbruma
Sunday 13th of March 2005 05:47:26 PM
1. "să practic româneşte" sounds a bit odd, although it's intelligible. A simple "să exersez" is better.

2. "ce faci?" means "what are you doing?". "how are you?" would be "ce mai faci?" and the formal version (also used for plural) is "ce mai faceţi?". Even if a native speaker will say sometimes "ce faci?" for how are you, this is not correct and it's done (I think) for the sake of brevity.

3. I guess, indeed, that 'învăţ româneşte' is a condensed form of 'învăţ să vorbesc româneşte' (I learn to name the things the way Romanians do), that's why it's unlikely to get back the question 'ce înveţi româneşte?'. Maybe it's a deeper linguistic explanation, but I am unable to provide it (Luludya might, however). "Învăţ româna" is equally possible and used very frequently (at least around here, one will say "învăţ engleza" more often than "învăţ englezeşte").


La_Pluie
Monday 14th of March 2005 01:48:27 AM
Ah, thanks for clearing all of that up... Maybe I will still say "ce faci" for "how are you?" sometimes because in English, for example, "how are you doing?" would be technically correct, by I always say "how you doin'?" at least in my head... although it might sound weird if a foreigner said it. I dunno, I guess I'll just try to get used to "ce mai faci" for now.

Trebuie să exersez romăneşte?

Isn't it engleză and română, with the accents at the end? I keep finding all these news/radio sites in Romanian that have no non-English letters anywhere, and it's really bothering me. Why would they leave them out?


rbruma
Monday 14th of March 2005 02:21:58 PM
I would say "Trebuie să exersez la română", I don't know if this is correct :)

They leave the accents (I think you mean the diacritics) out because:

1. International (Unicode) support was added rather recently in the computer world
2. The vast majority (99.9% I guess) of the keyboards used in Romania are standard qwerty US keyboards and it's really hard to find the Romanian layout
3. The sites are supposed to be read by those who know Romanian already (the same with, for example, Jewish works, which do not mark the vowels, thus making a word impossible to read without knowing it first)

I always write Romanian on the computer without the diacritics, I make an exception here because it is a site devoted to learning the language. That's why a written text is always better (a book, a newspaper, etc).


sandman
Monday 14th of March 2005 05:02:03 PM
in hand written texts diacritics are omitted because they're awkward ;) they break the normal flow of writing, force you to slow down, return and place those additional strokes. that's why many people leave out a dot above 'i', 'j', and two dots in russian 'ё'.


La_Pluie
Wednesday 16th of March 2005 05:54:35 AM
"Trebuie să exersez la română" - You don't know if it's correct? I thought maybe you weren't born in Romania from the way you spoke about native speakers and all, but now I see your profile... So I guess I'll just use whatever you say, even if you don't know if it's correct. ;)

So it looks like I'm not going to be able to learn Romanian very well by reading news articles online as I do with French unless I find some sites that use the diacritics.

Well, I probably shouldn't use Anca's name in practice conversations anymore (at least for the moment) because I showed her this thread, and she said she's going to post here. :p

Stafie: Ce faci?
Eu: Dansez. E Dragostea Din Tei!
Stafie: Interesant. Vreau şi eu să încerc.
Eu: Pot să te învăţ.

How does the imperative tense work in Romanian? I need to command people so I can be more like Anca. ;)


rbruma
Wednesday 16th of March 2005 02:36:08 PM
Yeah, that's me, the native speaker who has doubts about the rules of his own language :)

About the imperative, I can give only a short summary, without entering into the details normally found in a grammar book. So:

1. There are two persons (2nd sg. & 2nd pl.), each with two forms (affirmative & negative)
2. 2nd pl. in both forms is identical with the indicative, present tense, the difference being in intonation (request or order): cântaţi! (sing!) / nu cântaţi! (don't sing!). Exception: "a fi" = to be is "sunteţi" in indicative but "fiţi" in imperative
3. 2nd sg. negative is nu + infinitive of the verb (without 'a'): nu bea! (don't drink!)
4. 2nd sg. affirmative is the hardest: sometimes equals indicative present tense, 3rd sg. (generally for verbs in -a, -î and transitive verbs in -e, -ea, -i), sometimes equals indicative present tense 2nd sg., sometimes is wholly irregular (e.g. a fi > fii!, a face (to do) > fă!, a veni (to come) > vino!, a zice (to say) > zi!)
5. The problem with attaching personal or reflexive pronouns to the imperative forms complicates the whole issue :)

These are the general rules. You should try following them and I will try correcting what it is wrong.

I think that in your conversation you wanted to say "Vreau şi eu să încerc". The form you used has a meaning which doesn't fit in the conversation. Also, I don't think Anca would be so pleased to hear that she was substituted for a ghost. :)

"Cântă-l Sam, cântă-l... de dragul vremurilor trecute!" :)

PS - You can try http://www.gazetadecluj.ro/ It's a local newspaper, with uninteresting news but with diacritics.


La_Pluie
Thursday 17th of March 2005 10:46:44 AM
Wow, that looks pretty hard... to say the least. Thanks for typing that lesson out for me. I'll make good use of it.

Vreau şi eu să încerc - yes, that's what I wanted to say. ;) I don't know... Maybe Anca likes ghosts. :D

Eu: Doh.
Stafia: Homer Simpson.
Eu: Nu sunt Homer.
Stafia: LOL.
Eu: Fă linişte.
Stafia: Nu te iubesc.
Eu: Nici eu nu te iubesc.

Vino, Anca! Imediat! ;)


rbruma
Thursday 17th of March 2005 02:47:04 PM
The last part of the conversation is incorrect. The right version would be:

'Nici eu nu te iubesc'. (I don't love you either)

Also, do not use 'stafie' without an article of some sort (like in a dictionary). Since the enjoyable (at least to Anca) ghost is speaking, use either 'o stafie' or 'stafia'.

Also, introduce Anca to us. We are here like in 'Waiting for Godot' :)


La_Pluie
Friday 18th of March 2005 06:02:44 AM
Mulţumesc iarăşi. I didn't think it was right...

Introduce her? How do I introduce someone who you already know about but who isn't here? I don't know when she'll post... I won't see her again until Monday... She left school early today and will be at a funeral tomorrow.
I'm going to be bored... Plictisit means 'bored'? What's the feminine? Plictisită?

I probably shouldn't have mentioned that she said she's coming because you'll be waiting forever. :P

Merg să studiez acum... Mă voi întoarce.

Edit: I'm back... I've created two tests so far with this fairly new exercise generator. It's really cool... UniLang rules... except that there aren't quite enough people there. But the ones who are there are very serious, so it all works out. Anyway, this is a site for everyone, not just people learning Romanian:

http://home.unilang.org/main/exercise.php?mode=display

You can create tests and take other people's tests. It's great. I'm sure there's nothing else like it on the web, unless it costs money.

Pace!


rbruma
Friday 18th of March 2005 02:54:08 PM
Well, the "introducing" part was just a thought :)

Yes, 'plictisit' means bored (a state of mind we all share). Feminine, indeed, 'plictisită'.

'Merg să studiez' not 'merg studiez'. The subjonctive is required here.

Also, 'Mă voi întoarce', not 'Voi mă intoarce'. ('Voi mă intoarceţi' is right also, but means 'You are turning me', unlikely to be the meaning intended here :) )

Last, 'Pacea'. Did you mean (as written) 'The Peace' ? As it is, it doesn't make much sense. If you simply wanted to say 'Peace!', this is not translatable in Romanian (its equivalent would be 'Pace!', but this is not used as a greeting in Romanian. If you want to develop high artistic effects you could say 'Pace vouă!' (Peace to you all), a term used in the church service and only half-ironically in everyday speech.



kostyel
Friday 18th of March 2005 07:08:51 PM
uhhhh i hate those diacriticals, nobody uses them - except in handwriting - and please, rbruma, i hate that picture of Mircea Radu
http://www.virtualarad.net/news/2001/mircea_radu_se_confeseaza_aradenilor.jpg


you have there, change it "bre"


rbruma
Friday 18th of March 2005 07:48:46 PM
I didn't get the part about Mircea Radu & didn't see his picture around here. Try to get a bit sober and look again, kostyel


Former_Member
Saturday 19th of March 2005 02:37:20 AM
Personally, I find in pretty inconvenient that most romanians omit the diacritics entirely in online text.

I know why it's done... Because not all systems support them and because it's faster to type without them, but it's so hard to teach a complete beginner about articles without them...

If you know Romanian enough not to need the diacritics... you probably can't get much use out of this forum. :)


La_Pluie
Sunday 20th of March 2005 06:03:22 AM
Okay... Is there a Romanian equivalent of "okay"?

acest
această carte
vino încoace imediat
acesta este un scaun
aceasta

acel, acea
acel băiat
pronoun - acel, aceea
adică
cu asta basta
ce e asta?
cine e ăla?
but for that - fără asta
în felul ăsta

aceşti
aceste fete
aceştia, acestea
(pe) astea

acei câini, acele
aceia, acelea
astea


Sunt pierdută... All of that came from the dictionary.

Eu: Aceasta e o stafie.
Stafia: Mincinoasă!
Eu: Cine? Eu?
Stafia: Nu, acea fată!
Eu: Ah... Eşti o mincinoasă.
Stafia: Nu sunt mincinoasă când tu ştii că mint.

I don't know if the "o" is necessary before mincinoasă.

The funny thing about this conversation is that even though the name is "Stafia," it's still based on Anca. :D

Note to self: Undernet chat #Nicl3ta


rbruma
Monday 21st of March 2005 04:07:42 PM
No, there is not. Romanians do tend to use "okay" as well.

acest câine (m) = câinele (art!) acesta = câinele ăsta (in everyday speech, not in writing) = this dog

această casă (f) = casa (art!) aceasta = casa asta (in speech, not in writing) = this house

acel câine (m) = câinele (art!) acela = câinele ăla (in speech, etc) = that dog

acea casă (f) = casa aceea = casa aia = that house

plural (the same series: before, after and colloquial):

m : aceşti, aceştia, ăştia (these) - acei, aceia, ăia (those)
f : aceste, acestea, astea (these) - acele, acelea, alea (those)

So, you have 24 forms :) In order to make the Genitive and the Dative (to/for/of this, that, these, those) you'll have to use another series

cu asta basta = that's all, i'm done with it (that's an expression, so don't substitute, e.g., 'asta' with 'aceasta')

în felul ăsta = in this way




La_Pluie
Saturday 26th of March 2005 09:18:01 PM
Um... I just figured out what you meant by "art!" I knew it was articulated, but I had no idea that's what you were saying. :P

So... Are the articulated forms also used forms also the same thing as the pronouns? And I don't really understand these articulations... How can you have an articulated "this dog" and an unarticulated "this dog"? What's the difference?

I'm doomed...

Eu: Te urăsc.
Anca: No, you don't hate me.

LOL... cu adevărat.

Anca a spus că vrea să mă omoară. Şi am spus că vreau să mor.

I dunno about that first sentence.

Eu: Sunt mai bună că tine!
Stafia: Poate... Dar sunt invizibilă. Mwahaha...
Eu: Astfel că sunt mai frumoasă.
Stafia: Sau mai proastă.
Eu: Ai dreptate!
Stafia: Mulţumesc.


rbruma
Sunday 27th of March 2005 03:15:47 PM
OK, I'll try not to use so many abbreviations in the future :)

There's no real difference between the art. forms and the unart. ones (art. = articulated; unart. = unarticulated :) )
Generally, the art. (long) ones are used for more emphasis. You just pick your favourite and stick to it. Because they are more generally used, I suggest you to choose the unart. forms when writing ("acest câine" for "this dog") and the short, colloquial form when speaking ("câinele ăsta").

"Anca a spus că vrea să mă omoare" Subjunctive instead of indicative here.

"Sunt mai bună ca tine". Accusative (tine) instead of Nominative (tu).




La_Pluie
Tuesday 29th of March 2005 12:44:05 PM
Okay, mulţumesc. Iarăşi şi iarăşi şi veşnic (what a bloody tongue-twister). :D
Ştiu, it's the point of diminishing returns.

I'm sure I would've understood what you meant by "art" if there had been a dot there instead of an exclamation point. I mean, you don't have to worry about it.

Eu: Mama mea e nebună.
Stafia: De ce?
Eu: De ce?! Deoarece e nebună.
Stafia: Oh.
Eu: Din noro, wait... nenorocire. Din nenorocire, din nenorocire, din nenorocire, din nenorocire, e mama mea. :(

La dracu, e dificil! Does "la dracu" work? I told someone in our class that I'd found a way to annoy Anca, and so I told him that. He said that to her, and she said something about it not being correct........

I'm trying to figure out how to say "in order to" în română... Like: "I need someone [in order] to practice Romanian [with]."

And you never answered my other question... Are the articulated forms also used forms also the same thing as the pronouns?

Man, I dunno what I'd do without you right now because I'm not getting much help from elsewhere, and originally I didn't even ask for help. I'll have to find a way to really thank you, once my Romanian gets better and I say "I've come so far all thanks to that guy, rbruma." :P


rbruma
Wednesday 30th of March 2005 05:25:25 PM
'La dracu' works very well in the context you provided. Not very nice, though.

"in order to" you can use, for example, pentru + infinitive:

I need someone [in order] to practice Romanian = Am nevoie de cineva pentru a exersa...

Another way: ca + subjunctive

Am nevoie de cineva ca să exersez...

The second form tends to be used more frequently

"Are the articulated forms also used forms also the same thing as the pronouns?" La dracu :) I don't get what you want to say... Rephrase that, maybe I will be able to answer.

Well, you're welcome. There's no need for thanking, though :)






La_Pluie
Monday 04th of April 2005 01:07:48 AM
Okay, I guess I shouldn't use that... Anca said it sounds mean. :P

Oh, îmi pare rău! I screwed up that sentence... I meant: are the articulated forms also used as pronouns? I.e. aceasta = adj. and pronoun. Anca said yes, but I was pointing at the plurals, so it was weird... I don't like to ask her the same question twice because then I feel stupid.

Cred că Anca nu va veni aici... dar mi-a spus că vrea să mă ajute în timpul orelor.

Anca: De ce plângi?
Eu: Deoarece sunt aşa de proastă.
Anca: Da. Eşti proastă. Dar poţi să repari asta. Eşti puternică.
Eu: Sunt slabă.
Anca: Nu, nu eşti.


rbruma
Monday 04th of April 2005 03:56:59 PM
Yes, the articulated forms are used also as pronouns.

Cred că Anca nu va veni aici (not: ghicesc; a ghici means more like 'guess by divination' or something like this.)

If I understood correctly the second phrase, you wanted to say something like "but she said she will like to help me during class hours". If this is the case, the correct translation would be something like:

"dar mi-a spus că vrea să mă ajute în timpul orelor"

Last, not: "poţi să fixezi acela" but "poţi să repari asta". "to fix" is translated in Romanian as "a repara". "a fixa" means to attach something firmly, like a closet against a wall. It comes from an adjective, "fix", which means firm, not moving.



La_Pluie
Wednesday 06th of April 2005 05:34:16 AM
Mulţumesc... Da, ai avut dreptate despre acea propoziţie.

Why do you use the feminine in "poţi să repari asta"? Is that just some weird rule?

Mă bucur! Anca m-a ajutat mult astăzi. Acum trebuie să să o învăţ HTML. :P She read my last post and was annoyed that I said I didn't like to ask her the same question twice. LOL... Rbruma, Anca said "hi!" I told her about me adding you to my Yahoo! list, and she wants to have a three-way conversation now... I think she's jealous that I have a new "Romanian friend"! :P

J/k... She thinks you should be able to stay up late until we get home from school, but I can't ask you to do that. It would be 11:15 PM for you before I got home. So maybe the week-end?

BTW, can I call you something besides rbruma? You can call me Luella. I thought I would've asked you earlier, but I can't find where I did!

Încep (să?) uit limba franceză acum... =/


JacUnz11
Wednesday 06th of April 2005 11:30:46 AM
Rbruma: Um, I disagree with you when you say that Romanian is an easy language to learn. I was in Romania for a year and still have lots of troubles with a number of things. My Romanian friend has tried to explain the fact that the Romanian language has . . . gender, cases, irregular verbs, tenses etc. So, because of all these things, it is hard for a native English speaker to grasp the language. Just an opinion!


rbruma
Wednesday 06th of April 2005 01:39:33 PM
JacUnz11:

If a language is hard or easy is more a matter of personal opinion/taste/ability, it is not really about the differences in vocabulary and grammar. I find Russian and Greek easier to learn than Latin, although almost 80% of the Romanian vocabulary is Latin and practically the whole grammar evolved from the Latin grammar.

That's why I said that (in my opinion) Romanian is not so hard to grasp for a person who has English as the first language. I might be wrong for some people, I trust you on this.

Luella:

1. 'Ai avut dreptate' is better, 'aţi avut' is very formal.
2. 'asta' not so weird rule. the feminine here is used as an impersonal, like the English 'it'. Very frequently used in this sense. The feminine form is used because something like 'chestia asta' is implied (=this thing).
3. Anca m-a ajutat, not mi-a ajutat (Accusative, not Dative after 'a ajuta'). The form you used is intelligible but archaic.
4. "să se ajut cu HTML" I don't understand what you wanted to say here
5. Hi, Anca! :)
6. You added me to your list? I didn't noticed that.
7. We can set up a date either in some working day or (better) the weekend.
8. 'Încep să uit limba franceză acum' is very good. You are now beginning to sense where the subjunctive should be used, which is a great step forward
9. You can call me Răzvan :)





La_Pluie
Wednesday 06th of April 2005 03:23:35 PM
JacUnz - I don't know... I doesn't seem all that hard to me yet, but it's definitely harder than French since French is very close to English in its expressions ans vocabulary. But Romanian also has a lot of the same vocabulary. Although, at the moment, the verbs are giving me a lot more trouble than French ever did, I suspect that Russian will be hard compared to this. I guess it's all relative. I used to tell people it was hard to study French, but, looking back on it, I think it was rather easy. I just hadn't learned to learn yet.

Răzvan (cool name)...

1. Îmi pare rău, prietene!
4. I wanted to say that I have to help her with HTML, teach her HTML.
7. I'll talk to her about it today.

Pe curând...


rbruma
Wednesday 06th of April 2005 08:45:27 PM
1. Îmi pare rău, prietene! is more widely used
2. Trebuie să o învăţ (despre) HTML


JacUnz11
Thursday 07th of April 2005 08:07:43 AM
rbruma,
I agree with you somewhat that learning a language does have to do with personal ability, but I also think that there is a lack of resources available of GOOD and factual sites for the Romanian language that give pronunciation/transcription both verbally and written out. Also, many times the words that are given aren't put into context or meanings. For example when I type into a dictionary the English word sheets, the Romanian translation spits out all the different words with no explanation of the difference. So, with sheets, does it refer to bed sheets, or paper sheets . . . the context is lacking. If you know of a link that does this, please let me know!
However, one of my main struggles is that I started with learning the spoken language with no formal training and have yet to grasp how to read and write. Yet, I can carry on a pretty understandable conversation. So, that is my personal downfall!



rbruma
Thursday 07th of April 2005 02:00:48 PM
JacUnz11:

I agree with you, there are not (to my knowledge) good electronic resources for learning Romanian (dictionaries, grammars, tutorials). One who really wants to learn it should still resort to written texts or supplement those poor resources with some help from native speaking people (what we are trying to do here). Nevertheless, the lack of resources is not an argument for arguing that the language in itself is outstandingly difficult. I would find Chinese as hard as it is even with the best resources available on-line.
As for your personal learning process, I suggest you find a starting point (some phrases you know better, a letter, a newspaper, etc) and begin working from there. For any misunderstandings, ask. I will be glad to help you.

For you it should be not so difficult because you have a more or less working knowledge of Romanian, even if only of spoken language. However, this is a big advantage and you should learn quickly.


La_Pluie
Thursday 07th of April 2005 07:11:07 PM
I don't get it... Is prietene the articulated form?

Anca said she'll be there today.

So far I am managing to learn this language primarily online, in spite of the lack of resources. It's not so hard, I guess. The Romanian people seem eager to help. :)


rbruma
Friday 08th of April 2005 06:53:49 PM
Actually it's Vocative, a case of noun declension usually used when calling someone.

Usually equals Nominative, but not always (rules are a bit trickier, I will prepare a post to deal with them :)


La_Pluie
Sunday 10th of April 2005 01:28:40 AM
De acord...

I feel like I just need to study right now... I don't know what you thought of the conference, but I thought it was fun to have a chat with two Romanians. :D

I have no clue how I'm going to memorize all of these verbs... One by one? With French, there were three conjugations, and the irregular verbs had a pattern.

Vreau să văd munţii din România. Vreau să văd nişte munţi.

Anca nu crede că e o stafie............. Voi fi singuratică după ce mă părăseşte. :(


rbruma
Monday 11th of April 2005 01:26:00 PM
No problem about the verbs... also in Romanian there are 4 conjugations, and the irregular verbs have their patterns (about one per each verb :) ) A grammar I think will be good.

Anyway, remember the order in which to study the tenses (the order in which they are most commonly used):

1. Indicative - present
2. Subjunctive - present (very much used; practically is + present indicative, with the exception of 3rd sg & pl)
3. Past perfect (am, ai, a, am, aţi, au)+ participle, the most common way of expressing past actions
4. Imperfect (Imparfait?)

Once you know these, you will understand almost 80% of spoken Romanian's verbal forms. The few remaining are both easier to learn, less irregular and less used.

Vreau să văd munţii din România. (din = from)

Voi fi singuratică după ce mă părăseşte.

"Conferinţa" a fost amuzantă. :)



La_Pluie
Sunday 17th of April 2005 06:06:12 AM
Okay... So it's like French... "după ce" şi "aprčs que." :)

Care e diferenţa între perfectul compus şi perfectul simplu?


Past (perfect compus)
eu am fost
tu ai fost
el/ea a fost
noi am fost
voi aţi fost
ei/ele au fost

Simple Perfect
eu fusei
tu fuseşi
el/ea fuse
noi fuserăm
voi fuserăţi
ei/ele fuseră

I guess I shouldn't be worried about that yet, though...

There's no să with 3rd person? Astfel "vrea merge la casa mea" e corect?

Merg să ies cu Anca de mâine.

Îmi pare rău că te am părăsit zilele trecute. I didn't want to miss the bus...


Jeremy87
Sunday 17th of April 2005 12:45:44 PM
1. The difference between the simple perfect and compound past is that the simple perfect is used more in the country and rural areas of Romanian, especially in the south-west. If you speak the simple perfect in the city, people will say "petreci mult timp la ţară?". :) It's good to know though for comprehension. Otherwise, leave it alone for now.

2. I think what exceptions rbruma was talking about is that the verb 3rd sg and pl forms after the subjunctive are different than the regular conjugations. de exemplu "vrea să meargă la casa mea." and btw, I think the expression of "go to my house" or "go to my place" in Romanian is said "la mine" "la tine" so.. "vrea să meargă la mine."

3. Can't see anything wrong there..

4. I didn't want to miss the bus - n-am vrut să pierd autobuzul.
a pierde - to lose
eu pierd
tu pierzi
el/ea pierde
noi pierdem
voi pierdeţi
ei/ele pierd

Also used when you say you missed the train, or the bus. a pierde (trenul/autobuzul).

Correct me if I'm wrong rbruma.


rbruma
Monday 18th of April 2005 03:20:02 PM
1. Diferenţa între perfectul simplu şi cel compus: The simple perfect is indeed used in some regions of the country, particularly in Oltenia (south-west), but not only in rural areas. It is an indication that the person using it frequently is coming from that part of the country, but not necessarily from sub-urban areas. It is also sometimes used in writing as a means of style, when describing historic events. In the rest of the country is virtually never used in speech. I then agree with Jeremy: learn to recognize it, but do not bother yourself with it.

2. 'Care' e diferenţa... etc. In Romanian you use only 'care' (=which) in this kind of situations, never 'ce' (=what).

As to the rest, Jeremy explained it very well. Thanks!


La_Pluie
Sunday 01st of May 2005 07:04:27 AM
Thanks, guys... Gosh, this forum is quiet without me. I've been working on a Romanian site... Well, it wasn't my idea and isn't my site, but I was asked to work on it. Right now I'm working on a story where people can type in answers and choose paths in order to move on in the lesson. Other than the fact that I'm learning as I work on it, I wonder if I'm wasting my time... Is anyone else interested in this?

If anyone wants to check out the site, it's here: http://romanianonline.cjb.net

Hmm... Sunt plictisită. Anca nu vorbeşte mai mult cu mine. Cred că e plictisită cu mine (bored of me?). Oh, well... No one's fault...

N-am cineva pentru a exersa la română acum.


rbruma
Monday 09th of May 2005 02:16:45 PM
Small corrections (after a long time):

Cred că e plictisită de mine.

N-am pe cineva pentru a exersa....




La_Pluie
Wednesday 25th of May 2005 12:28:41 AM
Mulţumesc... Am pierdut internetul. My modems stopped working, so I have to get a new one. I have access to the school computers until Friday, and then I will have no way of practising Romanian except on paper unless I get a new modem soon. :(

Şcoala va termina pe vineri. Nu sunt mulţimită! Nu am realizat mult în timpul de acest an universitar cu excepţia că am studiat română şi franceză... dar am început să uit... grr... ştiţi...

Trebuie să plec acum.


La_Pluie
Sunday 12th of June 2005 12:23:33 AM
Deoarece nimeni nu reacţionează, voi continua singur.

Prietena mea este la România acum. Mă bucur că împreună vorbeam mai mult înainte de a părăsit.

Păsămite nu aş trebui să scriu despre toate aceasta, dar trebuie să exersez la română! Aş fi o spionă ridicolă.


delia
Sunday 12th of June 2005 02:26:20 PM
I'll play Razvan's role a bit:)
Prietena mea este în România acum.Mă bucur că înainte vorbeam mai mult înainte de a mă fi părăsit.Nu ar trebui să scriu despre toate acestea...Aş fi o spioană (fem) ridicolă.

Using Pasămite here is not a good idea...it means "mi se pare"=it seems


Jeremy87
Sunday 12th of June 2005 05:00:15 PM
Mă bucur că înainte vorbeam mai mult

I'm confused as to why that expresses "together we spoke" more than impreună, which I thought was the word for together. and also

înainte de a mă fi părăsit
please explain that one if you can. :) thanks


La_Pluie
Tuesday 14th of June 2005 11:00:37 AM
Mulţumesc, delia. Damn, I forgot about that feminine form. Terrible...

Yes, I'm confused as Jeremy is... =/


delia
Tuesday 14th of June 2005 07:05:46 PM
There is nothing wrong with placing the word "împreună" there,but there is not really necessary,bacause we already know it is about "us" talking.Yes,the word for together is "împreună".
"Înainte de a mă fi părăsit" is translated exactly:before she had left me, but it is a bit forced here,it is better to say "înainte de a mă părăsi"....I'm afraid I'm not good at explaining stuff,like rbruma.
hey,i am a bit confused here.La Pluie is a girl,right?and she is talking about her girlfriend?

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