Swedish Handskriven Do You Write Out Ã¤ And Ã¶?

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ekonomistudenten Thursday 07th of September 2006 09:00:19 AM
Handskriven - I have seen that in hand-written swedish sometimes instead of having the umlaut over ä and ö I see a dash. Is that commen when writing?

Rikard Thursday 07th of September 2006 05:32:52 PM
- Yes it\'s quite common. The reason many do it, i guess, is because if you write fast your two dots in the umlaut can be hard to detect. A straight horisontal line though has more width and is easier to detect. This is fully acceptable.

parru Thursday 07th of September 2006 08:00:18 PM
- isn\'t that quite common in every language which have dots? I mean we do the same in Finnish as well(:

Mathieu Thursday 07th of September 2006 10:23:53 PM
- For German I\'ve learned to do two small vertical bars over the vowel.. not sure how the Germans themselves do it though. For Dutch I never do it at least, so yes it gets sloppy then, but no, never a real dash as such. Don\'t know people that do write like that in Dutch, either.

Rikard Friday 08th of September 2006 12:28:51 AM
- I don\'t know if this is common in other countries but we often write our \"a\" like this (at least i do):

[img]http://www.kubrussel.ac.be/onderwijs/letterenwijs/tlk/images/alfabet.gif[/img]

Note: just talking about the \"a\".
Is this something you guys also do or do you use the \"computer a\"

ekonomistudenten Friday 08th of September 2006 11:45:53 AM
- I don\'t write a dash over my computer ä\'s and ö\'s. I have applied the Swedish letters to my keyboard so I can type them as quickly as I can type any other letter. Rikard, since you live in Sweden, can you tell me if your keyboard has ä, ö, and å without you having to modify it? Also, in your diagram, what are the letters in the line above \"w,x,y, and z\"? I canät seem to make them out.

Rikard Friday 08th of September 2006 01:10:02 PM
- I wasn\'t even aware that you could apply a horisontal dash over letters on the computer. How would you do that?

Anyway, we have our own special keyboards. They look like this (except that there\'s some Ctrl keys and stuff missing at the bottom since this is a keyboard from an amiga)
http://amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/a1200key_swedish_1_big.jpg

The earlier picture wasn\'t really about swedish, i just found it when searching for \"alphabet\" so i have no idea. It\'s not consistant anyway.

Margo_Fonteyn Friday 08th of September 2006 03:17:23 PM
- The Swede that was my teacher a year ago used to write \"~\" above \"a\" and \"o\" instead of dots. I usually write a dash when I write fast, especially when we do dictations.
The teacher I have now uses two vertical bars.

topi Friday 08th of September 2006 05:05:35 PM
Umlauts in handwriting - At first I was perplexed about this talk of lines and whatnot instead of dots. But then I realised you must be talking of handwritten texts and not something on the keyboard. Did I get it right?

My view is ä and ö have two dots on top of them and å has a small circle and that is that. How they appear in people\'s handwriting varies. But that\'s just for stylistical or practical reason. When you print, you always use the two dots and the circle.

Moreover, the handwriting they teach in schools changes. They try to make it as practical and legible as possible, so they might use a dash instead of two dots and a nearly round \"a\" to make it easier and faster to write.

Mathieu Friday 08th of September 2006 05:40:13 PM
- I always write my [a]\'s like [ɑ] (alpha like). I can\'t even do a proper [a]. My handwritten [æ] does have that tail, but I only have to use that one for phonetics and for Danish anyway :)

Does Swedish ever use any [á]\'s and stuff? Haven\'t seen them, but I have no idea how handwriting is different of course.

(all square brackets are to be replaced with these <> but then Phrasebase parses them as html and I can\'t disable that :p)

Rikard Friday 08th of September 2006 09:55:33 PM
- In swedish ´ only occurs above an e, that is é as in idé (idea) which is a totally different word than ide (hibernation) :p.

PS. yes we\'re talking about hand writing. As the topic points out :)

narnigrin Wednesday 04th of October 2006 02:24:36 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by topi[/i]

My view is ä and ö have two dots on top of them and å has a small circle and that is that. How they appear in people\'s handwriting varies. But that\'s just for stylistical or practical reason. When you print, you always use the two dots and the circle.

By the way, Rikard; could you please remove or resize that horrific alphabet image? :P It makes me crazy when I have to scroll the page _horizontally_. Tackar på förhand!

Moreover, the handwriting they teach in schools changes. They try to make it as practical and legible as possible, so they might use a dash instead of two dots and a nearly round \\\"a\\\" to make it easier and faster to write. [/quote]
The handwriting that Swedish children learn in school does involve dots though; no primary school teacher would be content with children writing just a dash. It\'s only when you get a few years older (and more lazy? ^^) that you start to make the dots a dash (or a ~). Also, it\'s not unheard (unseen?) of that the ring above the å magically transforms into a dot when you\'re writing fast ...

Rikard Wednesday 04th of October 2006 04:43:20 AM
- Haha. Min låg- och mellanstadielärare har hjärntvättat mig såppass mycket att jag adlrig kan skriva med streck istället för prickar med gott samvete :D

Ulven Thursday 05th of October 2006 05:59:07 AM
- [i]@ Rikard om den skrivit \'a\'[/i]
Ja, jag skriver det, den sammen som dig. Vi alla är lärt till som det, då är vi lilla börn i skola. Kanske några verkeliga gamla folk skriver det olik, eller personer som bara tycker om at vara olika med det.
Yeah, I write the \'a\' the same as you, as does everyone, I think. I think only the occasional old person may write it like the typed \'a\'. Once in a while, just for fun, I\'ve tried handwriting it the typed way, but it\'s hard. I have seen the occasional teacher of mine write it that way. It\'s unusual though.

Phrasebase Archive
	ekonomistudenten	Thursday 07th of September 2006 09:00:19 AM
	Handskriven - I have seen that in hand-written swedish sometimes instead of having the umlaut over ä and ö I see a dash. Is that commen when writing?
	Rikard	Thursday 07th of September 2006 05:32:52 PM
	- Yes it\'s quite common. The reason many do it, i guess, is because if you write fast your two dots in the umlaut can be hard to detect. A straight horisontal line though has more width and is easier to detect. This is fully acceptable.
	parru	Thursday 07th of September 2006 08:00:18 PM
	- isn\'t that quite common in every language which have dots? I mean we do the same in Finnish as well(:
	Mathieu	Thursday 07th of September 2006 10:23:53 PM
	- For German I\'ve learned to do two small vertical bars over the vowel.. not sure how the Germans themselves do it though. For Dutch I never do it at least, so yes it gets sloppy then, but no, never a real dash as such. Don\'t know people that do write like that in Dutch, either.
	Rikard	Friday 08th of September 2006 12:28:51 AM
	- I don\'t know if this is common in other countries but we often write our \"a\" like this (at least i do): [img]http://www.kubrussel.ac.be/onderwijs/letterenwijs/tlk/images/alfabet.gif[/img] Note: just talking about the \"a\". Is this something you guys also do or do you use the \"computer a\"
	ekonomistudenten	Friday 08th of September 2006 11:45:53 AM
	- I don\'t write a dash over my computer ä\'s and ö\'s. I have applied the Swedish letters to my keyboard so I can type them as quickly as I can type any other letter. Rikard, since you live in Sweden, can you tell me if your keyboard has ä, ö, and å without you having to modify it? Also, in your diagram, what are the letters in the line above \"w,x,y, and z\"? I canät seem to make them out.
	Rikard	Friday 08th of September 2006 01:10:02 PM
	- I wasn\'t even aware that you could apply a horisontal dash over letters on the computer. How would you do that? Anyway, we have our own special keyboards. They look like this (except that there\'s some Ctrl keys and stuff missing at the bottom since this is a keyboard from an amiga) http://amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/a1200key_swedish_1_big.jpg The earlier picture wasn\'t really about swedish, i just found it when searching for \"alphabet\" so i have no idea. It\'s not consistant anyway.
	Margo_Fonteyn	Friday 08th of September 2006 03:17:23 PM
	- The Swede that was my teacher a year ago used to write \"~\" above \"a\" and \"o\" instead of dots. I usually write a dash when I write fast, especially when we do dictations. The teacher I have now uses two vertical bars.
	topi	Friday 08th of September 2006 05:05:35 PM
	Umlauts in handwriting - At first I was perplexed about this talk of lines and whatnot instead of dots. But then I realised you must be talking of handwritten texts and not something on the keyboard. Did I get it right? My view is ä and ö have two dots on top of them and å has a small circle and that is that. How they appear in people\'s handwriting varies. But that\'s just for stylistical or practical reason. When you print, you always use the two dots and the circle. Moreover, the handwriting they teach in schools changes. They try to make it as practical and legible as possible, so they might use a dash instead of two dots and a nearly round \"a\" to make it easier and faster to write.
	Mathieu	Friday 08th of September 2006 05:40:13 PM
	- I always write my [a]\'s like [ɑ] (alpha like). I can\'t even do a proper [a]. My handwritten [æ] does have that tail, but I only have to use that one for phonetics and for Danish anyway :) Does Swedish ever use any [á]\'s and stuff? Haven\'t seen them, but I have no idea how handwriting is different of course. (all square brackets are to be replaced with these <> but then Phrasebase parses them as html and I can\'t disable that :p)
	Rikard	Friday 08th of September 2006 09:55:33 PM
	- In swedish ´ only occurs above an e, that is é as in idé (idea) which is a totally different word than ide (hibernation) :p. PS. yes we\'re talking about hand writing. As the topic points out :)
	narnigrin	Wednesday 04th of October 2006 02:24:36 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by topi[/i] My view is ä and ö have two dots on top of them and å has a small circle and that is that. How they appear in people\'s handwriting varies. But that\'s just for stylistical or practical reason. When you print, you always use the two dots and the circle. By the way, Rikard; could you please remove or resize that horrific alphabet image? :P It makes me crazy when I have to scroll the page _horizontally_. Tackar på förhand! Moreover, the handwriting they teach in schools changes. They try to make it as practical and legible as possible, so they might use a dash instead of two dots and a nearly round \\\"a\\\" to make it easier and faster to write. [/quote] The handwriting that Swedish children learn in school does involve dots though; no primary school teacher would be content with children writing just a dash. It\'s only when you get a few years older (and more lazy? ^^) that you start to make the dots a dash (or a ~). Also, it\'s not unheard (unseen?) of that the ring above the å magically transforms into a dot when you\'re writing fast ...
	Rikard	Wednesday 04th of October 2006 04:43:20 AM
	- Haha. Min låg- och mellanstadielärare har hjärntvättat mig såppass mycket att jag adlrig kan skriva med streck istället för prickar med gott samvete :D
	Ulven	Thursday 05th of October 2006 05:59:07 AM
	- [i]@ Rikard om den skrivit \'a\'[/i] Ja, jag skriver det, den sammen som dig. Vi alla är lärt till som det, då är vi lilla börn i skola. Kanske några verkeliga gamla folk skriver det olik, eller personer som bara tycker om at vara olika med det. Yeah, I write the \'a\' the same as you, as does everyone, I think. I think only the occasional old person may write it like the typed \'a\'. Once in a while, just for fun, I\'ve tried handwriting it the typed way, but it\'s hard. I have seen the occasional teacher of mine write it that way. It\'s unusual though.