Swedish Ordfã¶ljd Frã¥ga Word Order Question

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mrbicrevise Monday 30th of January 2006 08:44:51 PM
OrdfÃ¶ljd frÃ¥ga - I've just started looking at Swedish word order, and was wondering if anyone can correct/expand on the rules I've encountered so far:

- When nothing precedes the subject and verb, word order is typically SVO, e.g. "Jag bor där."

- When a phrase precedes the subject and verb, word order is OVS(?), e.g. "Där bor jag"

- In normal clauses, the verb precedes a modifier, while in subordinate clauses the modifier precedes the verb, e.g. "Jag kommer aldrig" and "Han säger, att jag aldrig kommer"

Rikard Thursday 02nd of February 2006 05:47:51 AM
- Sorry mate, i wish i could help you there but actually i do not know my own grammar :). So i can't give you any rules.

However, if you give me a bit more advanced examples i could try to correct any misstakes and give other ways of putting them.

Hope that can help.

Stine Thursday 02nd of February 2006 06:08:17 AM
- Hmm, I don't know if my rules for the Danish word order would help, but here they are :)

[b]Ligefrem ordstilling - Normal word order[/b]

[i]In a normal sentence structure the subject comes before the verb[/i]

Pigen sover - The girl is sleeping
Han spiser - He is eating

[b]Omvendt ordstilling - Inversion[/b]

[i]In sentences with inversion, the verb comes before the subject. Inversion is used in questions and in sentences which begin with other elements than the subject, a phrase to indicate time or place relations etc.[/i]

Sover pigen? - Is the girl sleeping?

[i]Time with normal word order:[/i]

Jeg besøgte ham i går - I visited him yesterday

[i]Time with inversion:[/i]

I går besøgte jeg ham

[i]Place with normal word order:[/i]

Hun bor i Danmark - She lives in Denmark

[i]Place with inversion:[/i]

I Danmark bor hun

[i]When you use interrogative pronouns, they are always placed at the beginning of the sentence and the verb after it

Interrogative pronouns:
Hvem, hvad, hvor, hvorfor, hvornår, hvilken/hvilket/hvilke, hvis, hvor længe..[/i]

Hvor bor de? - Where do they live?
De bor i Sverige - They live in Sweden

[i]In sentences where inversion is used and where there are two verbs, the subject must be placed between the verbs[/i]

I morgen vil jeg besøge dig - Tomorrow I will visit you

[b]Ordstilling i bisætninger - Word order in subordinate clauses[/b]

[i]The subordinate clause always has normal word order and must begin with a conjunction[/i]

[i]Main clause[/i]
Han dansede, og så kørte han hjem - He danced and then he drove home

[i]Main and subordinate clause[/i]
De tager ikke af sted, hvis det regner - They're not going, if it rains

[i]If the subordinate clause comes before the main, inversion is used in the main clause[/i]

Hvis det regner, tager de ikke af sted

[b]Ordstilling i sætninger med genstandsled - Word order in sentences with direct object[/b]

[i]Objects are placed after the subject and the verb in sentences with normal word order.
If you want to accentuate the object, it's placed at the beginning of the sentence and inversion is used[/i]

[i]Normal word order[/i]
I købte et nyt hus - You bought a new house

[i]Inversion[/i]
Et nyt hus købte I

[b]Ordstilling i sætninger med hensynsled - Word order in sentences with indirect object[/b]

[i]The indirect object is placed after the subject and the verb and in front of the direct object in sentences with normal word order.
If you want to accentuate the indirect object, it's placed at the beginning of the sentence and inversion is used[/i]

[i]Normal word order[/i]
Drengen gav hende en bog - The boy gave her a book

[i]Inversion[/i]
Hende gav drengen en bog

Rikard Thursday 02nd of February 2006 06:23:09 AM
- If i get the time i'll look into some swedish book and see if i can help you.

I've been rather down lately though. A friend of mine died this weekend and since then i haven't been motivated to do anything at all really. That's why i haven't done those recordings i spoke about doing and so on :(

mrbicrevise Thursday 02nd of February 2006 03:16:58 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Rikard[/i]

If i get the time i'll look into some swedish book and see if i can help you.

I've been rather down lately though. A friend of mine died this weekend and since then i haven't been motivated to do anything at all really. That's why i haven't done those recordings i spoke about doing and so on :([/quote]

Thanks for that guys, and I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Rickard :(.

jolin Thursday 02nd of February 2006 08:32:24 PM
- Rikard, I am sorry too to hear about your friend.

"Bic", I try to confuse things even more for you with a reply:

[quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i]

I've just started looking at Swedish word order, and was wondering if anyone can correct/expand on the rules I've encountered so far:

- When nothing precedes the subject and verb, word order is typically SVO, e.g. "Jag bor där."

- When a phrase precedes the subject and verb, word order is OVS(?), e.g. "Där bor jag"

- In normal clauses, the verb precedes a modifier, while in subordinate clauses the modifier precedes the verb, e.g. "Jag kommer aldrig" and "Han säger, att jag aldrig kommer"[/quote]

Swedish word order is very varied. Examples:

1.Jag vet att Arvidsjaur är kallt, eftersom jag bor där.
(I know Arvidsjaur is cold, because I live there.)

2.We are travelling together in a car, passing my house. I point, and say
"Där bor jag!" (There is where I live!)

3.We are travelling togehter in a car, passing my house. You point and say
"Ingen kan bo i det där rucklet" (Nobody can live in that ramshackle)
I reply (probably somewhat annoyed)
"Jag bor där" (I live there)

4.
- Vilket hus bor du i? (Which house do you live in?)
- Fjärde huset till vänster, där bor jag. (I live in the fourth house on the left side.)

"Jag bor där" gives emphasis on "Jag", answering the question "who lives there?"
"Där bor jag" gives emphasis on "Där", answering the question "where do you live?"
But the empasis can also be given with stress, thus the question "where do you live" can be answered with "jag bor [b]där[/b]", and, likewise, the question "who lives there?" can be answered with "där bor [b]jag[/b]."

5. Now for an even worse:
- Var hittar du all svamp? (Where do you find all that mushrooms?)
- Där jag bor.

This word order calls for something more, and in this example, the reply actually is "Jag hittar den där jag bor", but the sentence is shortened.

6. "Bor där jag" is completely unusable, and "jag där bor" could be used to fit the meter in some simple poetry.

7. Finally, "Bor jag där", is a question.

This should cover the possibilities for this specific example.

Rikard Thursday 02nd of February 2006 10:40:09 PM
- Thanks Jolin for your contribution. I realised when i first read through Peters questions that you could almost phrase it anyway you wanted, as long as you emphasize it right. Thereby my reluctance to give any certain rules, since there didn't seem to be any :).

I also think you covered all the possible cases :)

Mathieu Friday 03rd of February 2006 12:37:05 AM
- Note also that the verb, subject, object order can show up in these sort of constructions:

Får jag bo här, (så) kan jag inte dit längre.
If I get to live here, then I can't go there anymore.

(please correct this phrase! I hope the idea is clear though..)

mrbicrevise Friday 03rd of February 2006 03:10:19 AM
- When you say emphasize, do you mean placing more stress on the first word, or just using the appropriate word order to emphasize an answer to a question, etc.?

Rikard Friday 03rd of February 2006 06:33:12 AM
- If you look at Jolins examples, he gave you a couple of meanings showing how things usually are interpreted when spoken "plainly". However, you can most times say them in the order you want (apart from those shown above) as long as you emphasize the certain word which will then change the meaning of the sentence.

Jolin gave some examples with the emphasized words in bold.

If you want i can make some different recordings with the stress att different places to show you.

jolin Friday 03rd of February 2006 07:21:55 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i]

When you say emphasize, do you mean placing more stress on the first word, or just using the appropriate word order to emphasize an answer to a question, etc.?[/quote]

When I said "gives emphasis" I meant the word order in itself made the first word emphasized.
The examples with bold face, however, is with stress on the word in bold face. It works like in English.

But I still think it is hard to make any rules, and a lot of combinations are quite possible. Here are negation examples, as you can see the word order may be varied a lot:

Jag springer inte. (I don't run.)
Inte springer jag. (No way, I won't run)
Springer inte jag? (Are you implying I don't run?)
Springer jag inte? (Don't I run?)

Jag inte springer + inte jag springer are unusable.

När det regnar, springer jag inte. (When it rains, I don't run)
När det regnar, springer inte jag. (When it rains, I am not the one who would run)
Jag springer inte, om det regnar.
(I don't run when it rains)
Inte springer jag, om det regnar.
(I wouldn't run if it rains)
Springer inte jag, om det regnar?
(Wouldn't I run if it rains?)

But NOT:
Om det regnar, jag springer inte (immigrant Swedish!)

If you are able to find logic in the above, congratulations!

mrbicrevise Saturday 04th of February 2006 03:40:21 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by jolin[/i]
When I said "gives emphasis" I meant the word order in itself made the first word emphasized.
The examples with bold face, however, is with stress on the word in bold face. It works like in English.
[/quote]
(Skulle verkligen försök att skriva i svenska, som har jag inte på evigheter!) Jag önskar närmast att jag har inte bad för hjälp, alltsamman ser mycket svår ut :p.

Here's where I probably wind up looking a bit silly though - what would happen if you stuck a phrase in front of the "Jag springer inte" word orders? Like:

"De säga, jag springer inte."

Wouldn't you have to switch "jag" and "springer" around for it to read okay, or can you just place emphasis on a particular word instead? If so, would: "De säga, [b]jag[/b] springer inte." be the emphasised bit?

Agh, totally confused already.

Rikard Sunday 05th of February 2006 08:07:12 AM
- I understand you are confused. I guess you'll probobly just have to learn when to use what.

In the above you would have to phrase it like:
De säger att jag inte springer.
or
Jag springer inte, säger de.

quietspeaker Sunday 05th of February 2006 08:20:45 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i]

[quote][i]Originally posted by jolin[/i]
When I said "gives emphasis" I meant the word order in itself made the first word emphasized.
The examples with bold face, however, is with stress on the word in bold face. It works like in English.
[/quote]
(Skulle verkligen försök att skriva i svenska, som har jag inte på evigheter!) Jag önskar närmast att jag har inte bad för hjälp, alltsamman ser mycket svår ut :p.

Here's where I probably wind up looking a bit silly though - what would happen if you stuck a phrase in front of the "Jag springer inte" word orders? Like:

"De säga, jag springer inte."

Wouldn't you have to switch "jag" and "springer" around for it to read okay, or can you just place emphasis on a particular word instead? If so, would: "De säga, [b]jag[/b] springer inte." be the emphasised bit?

Agh, totally confused already.[/quote]

If you don't "live in Swedish" you need to learn the theory. And it's crucial to know the difference between main clauses and subordinate clauses!

In main clauses you can emphasize things by placing them in the beginning, as well as form a question by starting with the verb.

Subordinate clauses have a "subordinate clause word order" that can neither be used in main clauses nor be varied.

An "'if' clauses" (if = om) should be subordinate, but they can be replaced by clauses that have the same word order as questions.

De säger att jag inte springer.
Säger de att jag inte springer?
De ljuger om de säger att jag inte springer.
Om de säger att jag inte springer, ljuger de.
Om de inte säger att jag inte springer, talar de sanningen.
Säger de att jag inte springer, ljuger de.
...

[quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i]
Försök ä lära dig svenska; snälla känna fri att korrigerar min svenska (och den här, om det är fel!)[/quote]
Funny how the Swedes here haven't corrected your signature.
ä = (does this mean something?)
Försök att lära dig svenska = Hey you, try to learn Swedish!
(jag) Försöker att lära mig svenska = (I'm) Trying to learn Swedish
Snälla... (I'm not sure if "please" can always be translated as "snälla"... Any natives around?)
Känna fri... sounds funny. ("To sense the word 'free'", or something.)"Feel free to..." would be "Känn er fria att..."

But... wow, someone's learning a foreign language on their own! That must be hard, even though Swedish is easier than some other languages. I've always had teachers. But I've decided that when I'm retired (in two thousand forty-something), I'll start studying small and interesting languages.

Rikard Sunday 05th of February 2006 08:41:04 AM
- In my defence i have to add that i actually have commented on peters signature somewhere in the study group thread. It's probobly somewhere in the last 2 pages (yeah i know i took my time to actually do it :). He's been around here for quite some time hehe).

mrbicrevise Monday 06th of February 2006 02:02:55 AM
- Quietspeaker - Thanks for the corrections/examples, hopefully I'll "get" Swedish grammar eventually. With any luck my signature's sorted now, anyways.

Rikard - Inexcusably slow :p

Rikard Monday 06th of February 2006 07:21:27 AM
- You know you didn't actually ask us to correct it. Just to feel free to do it :)

Btw. It should be [i]korrigera[/i] and not [i]korrigerar[/i]

mrbicrevise Monday 06th of February 2006 03:56:15 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Rikard[/i]

You know you didn't actually ask us to correct it. Just to feel free to do it :)

Btw. It should be [i]korrigera[/i] and not [i]korrigerar[/i][/quote]

Ah, tack.

jolin Thursday 09th of February 2006 07:05:01 PM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by quietspeaker[/i]

Snälla... (I'm not sure if "please" can always be translated as "snälla"... Any natives around?)

But... wow, someone's learning a foreign language on their own! That must be hard, even though Swedish is easier than some other languages. I've always had teachers. But I've decided that when I'm retired (in two thousand forty-something), I'll start studying small and interesting languages.[/quote]

I find "snälla" to be a stressed "please". Otherwise we say "Skulle du .." , "Kan du .."

Please help me with this = Kan du hjälpa mig med det här?
Help me with this, [b]pleeeease[/b] = Snälla, kan inte du hjälpa mig med det här?

(Note the "inte" which is quite possible, but not mandatory)

About learning without teacher - I did with Thai for 3 months, and now I try it with Tagalog.
Thai was alright (because it is very little grammar), Tagalog is worse without a teacher.

But it also depends on what level you want to be able to communicate.

Phrasebase Archive
	mrbicrevise	Monday 30th of January 2006 08:44:51 PM
	OrdfÃ¶ljd frÃ¥ga - I've just started looking at Swedish word order, and was wondering if anyone can correct/expand on the rules I've encountered so far: - When nothing precedes the subject and verb, word order is typically SVO, e.g. "Jag bor där." - When a phrase precedes the subject and verb, word order is OVS(?), e.g. "Där bor jag" - In normal clauses, the verb precedes a modifier, while in subordinate clauses the modifier precedes the verb, e.g. "Jag kommer aldrig" and "Han säger, att jag aldrig kommer"
	Rikard	Thursday 02nd of February 2006 05:47:51 AM
	- Sorry mate, i wish i could help you there but actually i do not know my own grammar :). So i can't give you any rules. However, if you give me a bit more advanced examples i could try to correct any misstakes and give other ways of putting them. Hope that can help.
	Stine	Thursday 02nd of February 2006 06:08:17 AM
	- Hmm, I don't know if my rules for the Danish word order would help, but here they are :) [b]Ligefrem ordstilling - Normal word order[/b] [i]In a normal sentence structure the subject comes before the verb[/i] Pigen sover - The girl is sleeping Han spiser - He is eating [b]Omvendt ordstilling - Inversion[/b] [i]In sentences with inversion, the verb comes before the subject. Inversion is used in questions and in sentences which begin with other elements than the subject, a phrase to indicate time or place relations etc.[/i] Sover pigen? - Is the girl sleeping? [i]Time with normal word order:[/i] Jeg besøgte ham i går - I visited him yesterday [i]Time with inversion:[/i] I går besøgte jeg ham [i]Place with normal word order:[/i] Hun bor i Danmark - She lives in Denmark [i]Place with inversion:[/i] I Danmark bor hun [i]When you use interrogative pronouns, they are always placed at the beginning of the sentence and the verb after it Interrogative pronouns: Hvem, hvad, hvor, hvorfor, hvornår, hvilken/hvilket/hvilke, hvis, hvor længe..[/i] Hvor bor de? - Where do they live? De bor i Sverige - They live in Sweden [i]In sentences where inversion is used and where there are two verbs, the subject must be placed between the verbs[/i] I morgen vil jeg besøge dig - Tomorrow I will visit you [b]Ordstilling i bisætninger - Word order in subordinate clauses[/b] [i]The subordinate clause always has normal word order and must begin with a conjunction[/i] [i]Main clause[/i] Han dansede, og så kørte han hjem - He danced and then he drove home [i]Main and subordinate clause[/i] De tager ikke af sted, hvis det regner - They're not going, if it rains [i]If the subordinate clause comes before the main, inversion is used in the main clause[/i] Hvis det regner, tager de ikke af sted [b]Ordstilling i sætninger med genstandsled - Word order in sentences with direct object[/b] [i]Objects are placed after the subject and the verb in sentences with normal word order. If you want to accentuate the object, it's placed at the beginning of the sentence and inversion is used[/i] [i]Normal word order[/i] I købte et nyt hus - You bought a new house [i]Inversion[/i] Et nyt hus købte I [b]Ordstilling i sætninger med hensynsled - Word order in sentences with indirect object[/b] [i]The indirect object is placed after the subject and the verb and in front of the direct object in sentences with normal word order. If you want to accentuate the indirect object, it's placed at the beginning of the sentence and inversion is used[/i] [i]Normal word order[/i] Drengen gav hende en bog - The boy gave her a book [i]Inversion[/i] Hende gav drengen en bog
	Rikard	Thursday 02nd of February 2006 06:23:09 AM
	- If i get the time i'll look into some swedish book and see if i can help you. I've been rather down lately though. A friend of mine died this weekend and since then i haven't been motivated to do anything at all really. That's why i haven't done those recordings i spoke about doing and so on :(
	mrbicrevise	Thursday 02nd of February 2006 03:16:58 PM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by Rikard[/i] If i get the time i'll look into some swedish book and see if i can help you. I've been rather down lately though. A friend of mine died this weekend and since then i haven't been motivated to do anything at all really. That's why i haven't done those recordings i spoke about doing and so on :([/quote] Thanks for that guys, and I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Rickard :(.
	jolin	Thursday 02nd of February 2006 08:32:24 PM
	- Rikard, I am sorry too to hear about your friend. "Bic", I try to confuse things even more for you with a reply: [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i] I've just started looking at Swedish word order, and was wondering if anyone can correct/expand on the rules I've encountered so far: - When nothing precedes the subject and verb, word order is typically SVO, e.g. "Jag bor där." - When a phrase precedes the subject and verb, word order is OVS(?), e.g. "Där bor jag" - In normal clauses, the verb precedes a modifier, while in subordinate clauses the modifier precedes the verb, e.g. "Jag kommer aldrig" and "Han säger, att jag aldrig kommer"[/quote] Swedish word order is very varied. Examples: 1.Jag vet att Arvidsjaur är kallt, eftersom jag bor där. (I know Arvidsjaur is cold, because I live there.) 2.We are travelling together in a car, passing my house. I point, and say "Där bor jag!" (There is where I live!) 3.We are travelling togehter in a car, passing my house. You point and say "Ingen kan bo i det där rucklet" (Nobody can live in that ramshackle) I reply (probably somewhat annoyed) "Jag bor där" (I live there) 4. - Vilket hus bor du i? (Which house do you live in?) - Fjärde huset till vänster, där bor jag. (I live in the fourth house on the left side.) "Jag bor där" gives emphasis on "Jag", answering the question "who lives there?" "Där bor jag" gives emphasis on "Där", answering the question "where do you live?" But the empasis can also be given with stress, thus the question "where do you live" can be answered with "jag bor [b]där[/b]", and, likewise, the question "who lives there?" can be answered with "där bor [b]jag[/b]." 5. Now for an even worse: - Var hittar du all svamp? (Where do you find all that mushrooms?) - Där jag bor. This word order calls for something more, and in this example, the reply actually is "Jag hittar den där jag bor", but the sentence is shortened. 6. "Bor där jag" is completely unusable, and "jag där bor" could be used to fit the meter in some simple poetry. 7. Finally, "Bor jag där", is a question. This should cover the possibilities for this specific example.
	Rikard	Thursday 02nd of February 2006 10:40:09 PM
	- Thanks Jolin for your contribution. I realised when i first read through Peters questions that you could almost phrase it anyway you wanted, as long as you emphasize it right. Thereby my reluctance to give any certain rules, since there didn't seem to be any :). I also think you covered all the possible cases :)
	Mathieu	Friday 03rd of February 2006 12:37:05 AM
	- Note also that the verb, subject, object order can show up in these sort of constructions: Får jag bo här, (så) kan jag inte dit längre. If I get to live here, then I can't go there anymore. (please correct this phrase! I hope the idea is clear though..)
	mrbicrevise	Friday 03rd of February 2006 03:10:19 AM
	- When you say emphasize, do you mean placing more stress on the first word, or just using the appropriate word order to emphasize an answer to a question, etc.?
	Rikard	Friday 03rd of February 2006 06:33:12 AM
	- If you look at Jolins examples, he gave you a couple of meanings showing how things usually are interpreted when spoken "plainly". However, you can most times say them in the order you want (apart from those shown above) as long as you emphasize the certain word which will then change the meaning of the sentence. Jolin gave some examples with the emphasized words in bold. If you want i can make some different recordings with the stress att different places to show you.
	jolin	Friday 03rd of February 2006 07:21:55 PM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i] When you say emphasize, do you mean placing more stress on the first word, or just using the appropriate word order to emphasize an answer to a question, etc.?[/quote] When I said "gives emphasis" I meant the word order in itself made the first word emphasized. The examples with bold face, however, is with stress on the word in bold face. It works like in English. But I still think it is hard to make any rules, and a lot of combinations are quite possible. Here are negation examples, as you can see the word order may be varied a lot: Jag springer inte. (I don't run.) Inte springer jag. (No way, I won't run) Springer inte jag? (Are you implying I don't run?) Springer jag inte? (Don't I run?) Jag inte springer + inte jag springer are unusable. När det regnar, springer jag inte. (When it rains, I don't run) När det regnar, springer inte jag. (When it rains, I am not the one who would run) Jag springer inte, om det regnar. (I don't run when it rains) Inte springer jag, om det regnar. (I wouldn't run if it rains) Springer inte jag, om det regnar? (Wouldn't I run if it rains?) But NOT: Om det regnar, jag springer inte (immigrant Swedish!) If you are able to find logic in the above, congratulations!
	mrbicrevise	Saturday 04th of February 2006 03:40:21 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by jolin[/i] When I said "gives emphasis" I meant the word order in itself made the first word emphasized. The examples with bold face, however, is with stress on the word in bold face. It works like in English. [/quote] (Skulle verkligen försök att skriva i svenska, som har jag inte på evigheter!) Jag önskar närmast att jag har inte bad för hjälp, alltsamman ser mycket svår ut :p. Here's where I probably wind up looking a bit silly though - what would happen if you stuck a phrase in front of the "Jag springer inte" word orders? Like: "De säga, jag springer inte." Wouldn't you have to switch "jag" and "springer" around for it to read okay, or can you just place emphasis on a particular word instead? If so, would: "De säga, [b]jag[/b] springer inte." be the emphasised bit? Agh, totally confused already.
	Rikard	Sunday 05th of February 2006 08:07:12 AM
	- I understand you are confused. I guess you'll probobly just have to learn when to use what. In the above you would have to phrase it like: De säger att jag inte springer. or Jag springer inte, säger de.
	quietspeaker	Sunday 05th of February 2006 08:20:45 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by jolin[/i] When I said "gives emphasis" I meant the word order in itself made the first word emphasized. The examples with bold face, however, is with stress on the word in bold face. It works like in English. [/quote] (Skulle verkligen försök att skriva i svenska, som har jag inte på evigheter!) Jag önskar närmast att jag har inte bad för hjälp, alltsamman ser mycket svår ut :p. Here's where I probably wind up looking a bit silly though - what would happen if you stuck a phrase in front of the "Jag springer inte" word orders? Like: "De säga, jag springer inte." Wouldn't you have to switch "jag" and "springer" around for it to read okay, or can you just place emphasis on a particular word instead? If so, would: "De säga, [b]jag[/b] springer inte." be the emphasised bit? Agh, totally confused already.[/quote] If you don't "live in Swedish" you need to learn the theory. And it's crucial to know the difference between main clauses and subordinate clauses! In main clauses you can emphasize things by placing them in the beginning, as well as form a question by starting with the verb. Subordinate clauses have a "subordinate clause word order" that can neither be used in main clauses nor be varied. An "'if' clauses" (if = om) should be subordinate, but they can be replaced by clauses that have the same word order as questions. De säger att jag inte springer. Säger de att jag inte springer? De ljuger om de säger att jag inte springer. Om de säger att jag inte springer, ljuger de. Om de inte säger att jag inte springer, talar de sanningen. Säger de att jag inte springer, ljuger de. ... [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i] Försök ä lära dig svenska; snälla känna fri att korrigerar min svenska (och den här, om det är fel!)[/quote] Funny how the Swedes here haven't corrected your signature. ä = (does this mean something?) Försök att lära dig svenska = Hey you, try to learn Swedish! (jag) Försöker att lära mig svenska = (I'm) Trying to learn Swedish Snälla... (I'm not sure if "please" can always be translated as "snälla"... Any natives around?) Känna fri... sounds funny. ("To sense the word 'free'", or something.)"Feel free to..." would be "Känn er fria att..." But... wow, someone's learning a foreign language on their own! That must be hard, even though Swedish is easier than some other languages. I've always had teachers. But I've decided that when I'm retired (in two thousand forty-something), I'll start studying small and interesting languages.
	Rikard	Sunday 05th of February 2006 08:41:04 AM
	- In my defence i have to add that i actually have commented on peters signature somewhere in the study group thread. It's probobly somewhere in the last 2 pages (yeah i know i took my time to actually do it :). He's been around here for quite some time hehe).
	mrbicrevise	Monday 06th of February 2006 02:02:55 AM
	- Quietspeaker - Thanks for the corrections/examples, hopefully I'll "get" Swedish grammar eventually. With any luck my signature's sorted now, anyways. Rikard - Inexcusably slow :p
	Rikard	Monday 06th of February 2006 07:21:27 AM
	- You know you didn't actually ask us to correct it. Just to feel free to do it :) Btw. It should be [i]korrigera[/i] and not [i]korrigerar[/i]
	mrbicrevise	Monday 06th of February 2006 03:56:15 PM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by Rikard[/i] You know you didn't actually ask us to correct it. Just to feel free to do it :) Btw. It should be [i]korrigera[/i] and not [i]korrigerar[/i][/quote] Ah, tack.
	jolin	Thursday 09th of February 2006 07:05:01 PM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by quietspeaker[/i] Snälla... (I'm not sure if "please" can always be translated as "snälla"... Any natives around?) But... wow, someone's learning a foreign language on their own! That must be hard, even though Swedish is easier than some other languages. I've always had teachers. But I've decided that when I'm retired (in two thousand forty-something), I'll start studying small and interesting languages.[/quote] I find "snälla" to be a stressed "please". Otherwise we say "Skulle du .." , "Kan du .." Please help me with this = Kan du hjälpa mig med det här? Help me with this, [b]pleeeease[/b] = Snälla, kan inte du hjälpa mig med det här? (Note the "inte" which is quite possible, but not mandatory) About learning without teacher - I did with Thai for 3 months, and now I try it with Tagalog. Thai was alright (because it is very little grammar), Tagalog is worse without a teacher. But it also depends on what level you want to be able to communicate.