Swedish The/plural Nouns Question

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mrbicrevise Sunday 21st of August 2005 11:41:14 PM
The/plural nouns question - Just a quick question about writing ‘the’ with a plural. If ‘De fina husen’ means ‘the nice houses’ then can ‘De båtarna är fina/stora’ be successfully translated as ‘The boats are nice/large’?

Also, are there any particular rules when it comes to pluralizing words, or is it a case of learning individual forms as with en/ett words (the 'the' plural form of båt would seem irregular to me, being båtarna instead of båten(s?) by the -en/-et end article rule)? I have a feeling that between reading up on the additional definite article and adjectives referring to plural nouns I’ve managed to get myself pretty confused, so can anyone clarify this for me?

Mathieu Monday 22nd of August 2005 12:47:26 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i]

Just a quick question about writing ‘the’ with a plural. If ‘De fina husen’ means ‘the nice houses’ then can ‘De båtarna är fina/stora’ be successfully translated as ‘The boats are nice/large’?
[/quote]

I think 'Båtarna är fina/stora' would mean 'The boats are nice/large'. You need to place a determiner, 'de', in front of it when the noun is preceded by an adjective, which it isn't in this case. If you do put it in front then (like in your phrase), I have come to believe that you end up with something like "These boats are nice/large"

[quote]
the 'the' plural form of båt would seem irregular to me, being båtarna instead of båten(s?) by the -en/-et end article rule)?[/quote]

That actually looks pretty regular. You first add the plural suffix, which appears to be -ar in this case (there are multiple, this confuses me I must admit). Then the determiner, which typically is 'na' when you have a word with a plural suffix, to my knowledge. An irregular one would for example be 'landet' (the country) - 'länderna' (the countries) because the vowel changes, but again, as for suffixes it's pretty regular.

There is also an '-en' suffix for definite plurals, you get them at words that are neuter and which get a null-suffix in plural (remain unchanged, like ord, språk, brev..). That's it, just the '-na' and the '-en'.

So, you just have to make sure two things, and you have to learn them by heart:
-what plural suffix does it get; -er, -or, -ar, - ?
-what gender is the word; masculine/feminine (-en in definite singular), neuter (-et in definite singular)?

Combine those two factors and apply the rules, for a thorough explanation of that go here
http://www.lysator.liu.se/language/Languages/Swedish/Grammar.html
Although I myself must admit I'm too lazy to read all that proza :)

Axystos Monday 22nd of August 2005 02:32:42 AM
- [quote][i]Originally posted by Teup[/i]

Combine those two factors and apply the rules, for a thorough explanation of that go here
http://www.lysator.liu.se/language/Languages/Swedish/Grammar.html
Although I myself must admit I'm too lazy to read all that proza :)[/quote]
Although it is very nice proza. Proza for which my heart starts beating faster and for which I'd stay up all night to read it to the end. :D

Mathieu Monday 22nd of August 2005 03:11:27 AM
- So that must be why you're better at that grammar sort of stuff :p

mrbicrevise Tuesday 23rd of August 2005 01:22:02 AM
- Thanks for clearing that up :)

Rikard Thursday 25th of August 2005 03:29:53 AM
- This is one of the hardest parts when learning swedish i would guess. If I'm not misstaking we have 5 ways of regulary pluralizing things :)

1) ar
2) or
3) er/r
4) en /n
5) same as the stem

apart from these there are some irregular ones and also borrow words. Many latin words for example follow their latin plural forms. for example. The plural of "schema" is actually "schemata" and for "forum" it is "fora" (i think). Many people use some kind of swedish version of their plural forms instead :)

The most awkward plural form must be the one of "bokhandel" (book store). It's actually "boklådor". This comes from the original useage of the word when people sold books on the street from a box .

mrbicrevise Thursday 25th of August 2005 03:41:38 AM
- Ah, the 5 Declinations? I was reading up on 'em @ [URL]http://www.lysator.liu.se/language/Languages/Swedish/Grammar.html[/URL]; still pretty confusing, but I'm sure I'll get it eventually.

Gotta love etymology, though! *insert geeky smiley here*

Rikard Saturday 27th of August 2005 05:16:33 AM
- I'm glad you like it :)

Phrasebase Archive
	mrbicrevise	Sunday 21st of August 2005 11:41:14 PM
	The/plural nouns question - Just a quick question about writing ‘the’ with a plural. If ‘De fina husen’ means ‘the nice houses’ then can ‘De båtarna är fina/stora’ be successfully translated as ‘The boats are nice/large’? Also, are there any particular rules when it comes to pluralizing words, or is it a case of learning individual forms as with en/ett words (the 'the' plural form of båt would seem irregular to me, being båtarna instead of båten(s?) by the -en/-et end article rule)? I have a feeling that between reading up on the additional definite article and adjectives referring to plural nouns I’ve managed to get myself pretty confused, so can anyone clarify this for me?
	Mathieu	Monday 22nd of August 2005 12:47:26 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by mrbicrevise[/i] Just a quick question about writing ‘the’ with a plural. If ‘De fina husen’ means ‘the nice houses’ then can ‘De båtarna är fina/stora’ be successfully translated as ‘The boats are nice/large’? [/quote] I think 'Båtarna är fina/stora' would mean 'The boats are nice/large'. You need to place a determiner, 'de', in front of it when the noun is preceded by an adjective, which it isn't in this case. If you do put it in front then (like in your phrase), I have come to believe that you end up with something like "These boats are nice/large" [quote] the 'the' plural form of båt would seem irregular to me, being båtarna instead of båten(s?) by the -en/-et end article rule)?[/quote] That actually looks pretty regular. You first add the plural suffix, which appears to be -ar in this case (there are multiple, this confuses me I must admit). Then the determiner, which typically is 'na' when you have a word with a plural suffix, to my knowledge. An irregular one would for example be 'landet' (the country) - 'länderna' (the countries) because the vowel changes, but again, as for suffixes it's pretty regular. There is also an '-en' suffix for definite plurals, you get them at words that are neuter and which get a null-suffix in plural (remain unchanged, like ord, språk, brev..). That's it, just the '-na' and the '-en'. So, you just have to make sure two things, and you have to learn them by heart: -what plural suffix does it get; -er, -or, -ar, - ? -what gender is the word; masculine/feminine (-en in definite singular), neuter (-et in definite singular)? Combine those two factors and apply the rules, for a thorough explanation of that go here http://www.lysator.liu.se/language/Languages/Swedish/Grammar.html Although I myself must admit I'm too lazy to read all that proza :)
	Axystos	Monday 22nd of August 2005 02:32:42 AM
	- [quote][i]Originally posted by Teup[/i] Combine those two factors and apply the rules, for a thorough explanation of that go here http://www.lysator.liu.se/language/Languages/Swedish/Grammar.html Although I myself must admit I'm too lazy to read all that proza :)[/quote] Although it is very nice proza. Proza for which my heart starts beating faster and for which I'd stay up all night to read it to the end. :D
	Mathieu	Monday 22nd of August 2005 03:11:27 AM
	- So that must be why you're better at that grammar sort of stuff :p
	mrbicrevise	Tuesday 23rd of August 2005 01:22:02 AM
	- Thanks for clearing that up :)
	Rikard	Thursday 25th of August 2005 03:29:53 AM
	- This is one of the hardest parts when learning swedish i would guess. If I'm not misstaking we have 5 ways of regulary pluralizing things :) 1) ar 2) or 3) er/r 4) en /n 5) same as the stem apart from these there are some irregular ones and also borrow words. Many latin words for example follow their latin plural forms. for example. The plural of "schema" is actually "schemata" and for "forum" it is "fora" (i think). Many people use some kind of swedish version of their plural forms instead :) The most awkward plural form must be the one of "bokhandel" (book store). It's actually "boklådor". This comes from the original useage of the word when people sold books on the street from a box .
	mrbicrevise	Thursday 25th of August 2005 03:41:38 AM
	- Ah, the 5 Declinations? I was reading up on 'em @ [URL]http://www.lysator.liu.se/language/Languages/Swedish/Grammar.html[/URL]; still pretty confusing, but I'm sure I'll get it eventually. Gotta love etymology, though! insert geeky smiley here
	Rikard	Saturday 27th of August 2005 05:16:33 AM
	- I'm glad you like it :)