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amangkurat Thursday 20th of July 2006 09:59:12 PM
Introduction - Iyi aksamlar.. benim adim Nike... 26 yasindayim... internet gezinmeyi, satranc oynamayi and piyano calmayi seviyorum, uzgunum my Turkish (just know few word today :P)

Why i wanna learn Turkish above anything else?
Because it\'s unique, cos it sounds like Sindarin Language ( Elves language created by Tolkien in Lord of The Ring :) ).

Osman Friday 21st of July 2006 02:34:47 AM
- Merhaba Nike!

Türkçe Forumuna Hoşgeldin!

I hope you will find useful stuff for you ;)

I didn\'t know that Turkish sounds like Sindarin...

enjoy it! ;)

Bereza Friday 21st of July 2006 02:38:28 AM
- Maybe Sindarin is that Mandarin? ;)

Osman Friday 21st of July 2006 02:42:04 AM
- Nope Bereza. ;)

He talks about the language used by Elves in the Lord of the Rings series. Although i have watched the films, i didnt notice the similarity between Turkish and Sindarin. i didnt even know that its name is Sindarin :)

Bereza Friday 21st of July 2006 02:46:58 AM
- Merhaba, Osman! :)

Of course, I don\'t know about neither these Ring series, nor Sindarin. :( So it is interesting, is this Sindarin a product of these Ring series, or it is real exciting language? ;)

Osman Friday 21st of July 2006 02:50:39 AM
- Merhaba! iyi akşamlar! :)

hope this helps ;)

[quote] from wikipedia
Sindarin is an artificial language (or conlang) developed by J. R. R. Tolkien. In Tolkien\'s mythos, it was the Elvish language most commonly spoken in Middle-earth in the Third Age. It was the language of the Sindar, those Teleri which had been left behind on the Great Journey of the Elves. It was derived from an earlier language called Common Telerin. When the Ñoldor returned to Middle-earth, they adopted the Sindarin language, although they believed their native Quenya more beautiful. Sindarin shared common roots with Quenya, and the two languages had many similar words. Sindarin was said to be more changeful than the older tongue, however, and there were a number of regional \'dialects\' of the tongue. The Sindarin spoken in Doriath was said to be the highest and most noble form of the language.

Before the downfall, most of the Men of Númenor also spoke the language. Knowledge of it was kept in the Númenórean realm in exile Gondor, especially amongst the learned. Sindarin is the language referred to as the Elven-tongue in The Lord of the Rings.

Tolkien originally imagined that the language which would become Sindarin was spoken by the Ñoldor (second clan of Elves). However, Tolkien later decided that it was the language of the Sindar. For this reason it is called Noldorin in the older material, such as the Etymologies. When Noldorin became Sindarin, it also adopted some features of the originally unrelated language Ilkorin. Tolkien based the sound and some of the grammar of his Noldorin/Sindarin on Welsh, and Sindarin displays some of the consonant mutations that characterise the Celtic (especially Brythonic) languages. The language was also probably influenced to an extent by the Germanic languages, as Tolkien was a scholar of Old English, Old Norse and Gothic.

Sindarin was written in the Cirth alphabet prior to the return of the Ñoldor to Middle-earth, but afterwards it was usually written in Tengwar. The language is now usually written in the Latin alphabet.
[/quote]

amangkurat Friday 21st of July 2006 03:13:07 PM
- Osman, will you translate these into Turkish? Word by word :D

[quote]Once there was a man who dwelt
Above the lofty peaks of stone
Above the misty clouds forlorn
In silent tears he dwelt alone

In hardened task one day he saw
A maiden shining with dark sad eyes
Like icy spears they pierced him with
Her shadowed sorrow and mourning cries

What power in heaven could ever move
This long forsaken man to speak
Who hid between the mountains cold
Who hid behind the icy peak

O woman! Why do you cry?
What burden do you bear?
Unknown to me it breaks my heart
Is no one left to care?

Come and let me share your pain
Above the lofty peaks of stone
Above the misty clouds forlorn
In silent tears but not alone[/quote]

The original Poetry\'s written in Elven Language.

[quote]Yaresse ene antan i marne,
Ro vanwe fánar hísiesse,
Ro i táre aicali sarne,
Nairenen marne eressea.

Mótalasse cennero olor,
Vende silmin morie henduva,
Sincanentes ve helce ehtor,
Qualnienieryanen lumbeva.

Oio tyarnie vala mana,
Nurtana imbe i aicali,
Andave vanwa antan quena,
Nurtana pella niquetili.

A fíriel! manen nienalye?
Usinta nenna, ráca indonya,
Alta lungo mana colalye?
Uye sí uquen lemba nilya?

Ai láva ne ocóla naicelya,
Ro vanwe fánar hísiesse,
Ro i táre aicali sarne,
Nairenen nán aleressea.[/quote]

Bunu benim icin cevirebilir misin?

Bereza Friday 21st of July 2006 06:03:57 PM
- Merhaba, Osman and Amangkurat. Thank you for interesting information about it. I would like to elaborate one thing more correct. It is seem from your brought text that Sindarin - Turkish - Welsh - Celtic language has common feature. It seems for me that Turkish language has something similar from the beginning of North-Celtic language, what is forgotten old ancient language (great-grandmother of all languages)?

Osman Friday 21st of July 2006 06:54:20 PM
- i will give a try Amangkurat ;) soon :D

but i don\'t think they are quite similar.. maybe they sound similar..

Merhaba Bereza,

i don\'t know if there is relationship betwen Turkish language and North-Celtic one but i am sure that there was great-grandma of all languages. Our teacher had told us about that but she didnt also know the details. Do you have any idea about that? I will make search on net.. We will see the results ;)

Bereza Saturday 22nd of July 2006 01:14:23 AM
- Merhaba Osman, yes, you are right. This topic is very dificult thanks of small information about common features between Celtic and Turkish, but in spite of difficult question, I would like to call your attention to Celtic and Turkish ornamental (decorative) art. Please look at these pictures and you may easier find more common. I think that this decorative art is more ancient and firm than such both languages, which have undergone changes in their life.

[b]Celtic art[/b]

[img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_pegasus.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_vase.jpg[/img]
Teresa Richards-Marshall, The Celtic vase

[b]Turkish art[/b]

[img]http://www.islamnaneve.ru/images/29/188.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.lesartsturcs.com/images/smallimage/20x20cm_cornerandborder_tiles_ks1_t.jpg[/img]

Bereza Saturday 22nd of July 2006 01:43:07 AM
- [b]Turkish art[/b]

[img]http://www.islamnaneve.ru/images/135/kuff3.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.edagallery.com/images/6X10_center_star.jpg[/img]

Elegant Decorative Art

[b]Celtic art[/b]

[img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_duir_oak.jpg[/img]

«Duir – Oak» , Lisa Laughy

[img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_journal.jpg[/img]

Celtic Knotwork Journal

Osman Saturday 22nd of July 2006 02:29:19 AM
- O_O

very interesting indeed! i wonder if someone made a search about those similarities..

*going on searching*

Bereza Tuesday 25th of July 2006 04:35:12 AM
- Merhaba Osman, I would like to ask you. What you may tell about Turkish mithology, I think that at your place Mithology was called otherwise? What is ancient history of Turkey? Maybe it is [b]Ancient Anatolia[/b]?

http://www.ancientanatolia.com/introduction.html

Osman Wednesday 26th of July 2006 03:53:47 AM
- Merhaba Bereza, Yes, it is Ancient Anatolia where many civilisations are hosted. Indeed There are many mithological stuff here in Turkey and Greece. But since i am not interested in them, i don\'t know them well. Troy is one of them if it is called \"mithology\".hmm.. like that. Very ancient history of Turkey is the ancient anatolia ;)

btw, the site was very nice. thanks for sharing the link Bereza!

Phrasebase Archive
	amangkurat	Thursday 20th of July 2006 09:59:12 PM
	Introduction - Iyi aksamlar.. benim adim Nike... 26 yasindayim... internet gezinmeyi, satranc oynamayi and piyano calmayi seviyorum, uzgunum my Turkish (just know few word today :P) Why i wanna learn Turkish above anything else? Because it\'s unique, cos it sounds like Sindarin Language ( Elves language created by Tolkien in Lord of The Ring :) ).
	Osman	Friday 21st of July 2006 02:34:47 AM
	- Merhaba Nike! Türkçe Forumuna Hoşgeldin! I hope you will find useful stuff for you ;) I didn\'t know that Turkish sounds like Sindarin... enjoy it! ;)
	Bereza	Friday 21st of July 2006 02:38:28 AM
	- Maybe Sindarin is that Mandarin? ;)
	Osman	Friday 21st of July 2006 02:42:04 AM
	- Nope Bereza. ;) He talks about the language used by Elves in the Lord of the Rings series. Although i have watched the films, i didnt notice the similarity between Turkish and Sindarin. i didnt even know that its name is Sindarin :)
	Bereza	Friday 21st of July 2006 02:46:58 AM
	- Merhaba, Osman! :) Of course, I don\'t know about neither these Ring series, nor Sindarin. :( So it is interesting, is this Sindarin a product of these Ring series, or it is real exciting language? ;)
	Osman	Friday 21st of July 2006 02:50:39 AM
	- Merhaba! iyi akşamlar! :) hope this helps ;) [quote] from wikipedia Sindarin is an artificial language (or conlang) developed by J. R. R. Tolkien. In Tolkien\'s mythos, it was the Elvish language most commonly spoken in Middle-earth in the Third Age. It was the language of the Sindar, those Teleri which had been left behind on the Great Journey of the Elves. It was derived from an earlier language called Common Telerin. When the Ñoldor returned to Middle-earth, they adopted the Sindarin language, although they believed their native Quenya more beautiful. Sindarin shared common roots with Quenya, and the two languages had many similar words. Sindarin was said to be more changeful than the older tongue, however, and there were a number of regional \'dialects\' of the tongue. The Sindarin spoken in Doriath was said to be the highest and most noble form of the language. Before the downfall, most of the Men of Númenor also spoke the language. Knowledge of it was kept in the Númenórean realm in exile Gondor, especially amongst the learned. Sindarin is the language referred to as the Elven-tongue in The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien originally imagined that the language which would become Sindarin was spoken by the Ñoldor (second clan of Elves). However, Tolkien later decided that it was the language of the Sindar. For this reason it is called Noldorin in the older material, such as the Etymologies. When Noldorin became Sindarin, it also adopted some features of the originally unrelated language Ilkorin. Tolkien based the sound and some of the grammar of his Noldorin/Sindarin on Welsh, and Sindarin displays some of the consonant mutations that characterise the Celtic (especially Brythonic) languages. The language was also probably influenced to an extent by the Germanic languages, as Tolkien was a scholar of Old English, Old Norse and Gothic. Sindarin was written in the Cirth alphabet prior to the return of the Ñoldor to Middle-earth, but afterwards it was usually written in Tengwar. The language is now usually written in the Latin alphabet. [/quote]
	amangkurat	Friday 21st of July 2006 03:13:07 PM
	- Osman, will you translate these into Turkish? Word by word :D [quote]Once there was a man who dwelt Above the lofty peaks of stone Above the misty clouds forlorn In silent tears he dwelt alone In hardened task one day he saw A maiden shining with dark sad eyes Like icy spears they pierced him with Her shadowed sorrow and mourning cries What power in heaven could ever move This long forsaken man to speak Who hid between the mountains cold Who hid behind the icy peak O woman! Why do you cry? What burden do you bear? Unknown to me it breaks my heart Is no one left to care? Come and let me share your pain Above the lofty peaks of stone Above the misty clouds forlorn In silent tears but not alone[/quote] The original Poetry\'s written in Elven Language. [quote]Yaresse ene antan i marne, Ro vanwe fánar hísiesse, Ro i táre aicali sarne, Nairenen marne eressea. Mótalasse cennero olor, Vende silmin morie henduva, Sincanentes ve helce ehtor, Qualnienieryanen lumbeva. Oio tyarnie vala mana, Nurtana imbe i aicali, Andave vanwa antan quena, Nurtana pella niquetili. A fíriel! manen nienalye? Usinta nenna, ráca indonya, Alta lungo mana colalye? Uye sí uquen lemba nilya? Ai láva ne ocóla naicelya, Ro vanwe fánar hísiesse, Ro i táre aicali sarne, Nairenen nán aleressea.[/quote] Bunu benim icin cevirebilir misin?
	Bereza	Friday 21st of July 2006 06:03:57 PM
	- Merhaba, Osman and Amangkurat. Thank you for interesting information about it. I would like to elaborate one thing more correct. It is seem from your brought text that Sindarin - Turkish - Welsh - Celtic language has common feature. It seems for me that Turkish language has something similar from the beginning of North-Celtic language, what is forgotten old ancient language (great-grandmother of all languages)?
	Osman	Friday 21st of July 2006 06:54:20 PM
	- i will give a try Amangkurat ;) soon :D but i don\'t think they are quite similar.. maybe they sound similar.. Merhaba Bereza, i don\'t know if there is relationship betwen Turkish language and North-Celtic one but i am sure that there was great-grandma of all languages. Our teacher had told us about that but she didnt also know the details. Do you have any idea about that? I will make search on net.. We will see the results ;)
	Bereza	Saturday 22nd of July 2006 01:14:23 AM
	- Merhaba Osman, yes, you are right. This topic is very dificult thanks of small information about common features between Celtic and Turkish, but in spite of difficult question, I would like to call your attention to Celtic and Turkish ornamental (decorative) art. Please look at these pictures and you may easier find more common. I think that this decorative art is more ancient and firm than such both languages, which have undergone changes in their life. [b]Celtic art[/b] [img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_pegasus.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_vase.jpg[/img] Teresa Richards-Marshall, The Celtic vase [b]Turkish art[/b] [img]http://www.islamnaneve.ru/images/29/188.gif[/img] [img]http://www.lesartsturcs.com/images/smallimage/20x20cm_cornerandborder_tiles_ks1_t.jpg[/img]
	Bereza	Saturday 22nd of July 2006 01:43:07 AM
	- [b]Turkish art[/b] [img]http://www.islamnaneve.ru/images/135/kuff3.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.edagallery.com/images/6X10_center_star.jpg[/img] Elegant Decorative Art [b]Celtic art[/b] [img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_duir_oak.jpg[/img] «Duir – Oak» , Lisa Laughy [img]http://www.i2r.ru/static/255/imgs/design/keltic_journal.jpg[/img] Celtic Knotwork Journal
	Osman	Saturday 22nd of July 2006 02:29:19 AM
	- O_O very interesting indeed! i wonder if someone made a search about those similarities.. going on searching
	Bereza	Tuesday 25th of July 2006 04:35:12 AM
	- Merhaba Osman, I would like to ask you. What you may tell about Turkish mithology, I think that at your place Mithology was called otherwise? What is ancient history of Turkey? Maybe it is [b]Ancient Anatolia[/b]? http://www.ancientanatolia.com/introduction.html
	Osman	Wednesday 26th of July 2006 03:53:47 AM
	- Merhaba Bereza, Yes, it is Ancient Anatolia where many civilisations are hosted. Indeed There are many mithological stuff here in Turkey and Greece. But since i am not interested in them, i don\'t know them well. Troy is one of them if it is called \"mithology\".hmm.. like that. Very ancient history of Turkey is the ancient anatolia ;) btw, the site was very nice. thanks for sharing the link Bereza!