|
|
Joe
Forum Administrator
Posts: 4709
Joined: 24 Nov 04
From: Pittsburgh, PA US
|
Differences between how books say something and how people say it...
The "Pick the wrong one out" thread gave me the idea for this. I've noticed with Russian, as well with German when I learned it years ago, that often the way a book may contruct a sentence may not be the way it's actually said in the language. Sometimes it's an outdated way, or maybe slang has taken over. An example - when I was learning German, we learned to ask the time by saying "Um wieviel Uhr ist es?", meaning, "What hour is it?". When I said this to one of the exchange students, she laughed and said "no-one actually says that - we say 'Was sagt die Uhr'" or "what does the clock say?". The German teacher was almost appalled when I said that one day in class.
Anyway, in the Russian thread, schnork and I were wondering between the following sentences:
как тебе нравится Путин?
or
Как ты думаешь о Путине?
Both are probably grammatically correct, but which way would you actually hear someone say it? Or do they really not carry the same connotation?
Also, if you know of any other vagaries bewteen grammatically correct phrases, and the way it's actually used, let us know and post them here!
|
_________________________
I could tell you so much more, but instead let me share one last insight. Don't pity me or try to cure or change me. If you could live in my head for just one day, you might weep at how much beauty I perceive in the world with my exquisite senses. I would not trade one small bit of that beauty, as overwhelming and powerful as it can be, for "normalcy."
~ quote from a CNN editor, on her living within the autistic spectrum
IP: Hidden |
|
22 Sep 05 |
|
Matroskin
Active Member
Posts: 154
Joined: 11 Sep 05
From: Saratov
|
Hi Joe! Both phrases you've written here are correct for spoken Russian. I can add "Что ты думаешь о Путине?" here. But there are a lot of differences between bookish and modern spoken language.
lit: Какой номер этого автобуса ? = What is the number of this bus?
spk: Этот автобус / какой номер? ("/" means very short pause and "//" - short pause).
lit: Сколько времени? = What's the time?
spk: Сколько время?
lit: Этот человек живет поблизости и умеет играть на пианино = This man lives nearby and he can play piano
spk: Этот / рядом живёт // на пианино играет
lit: Купи пачку чаю и килограмм сахару = Buy a pack of tea and a kilogram of shugar
spk: Купишь чай пачка / сахар кило
lit: Я пойду домой, уже поздно = I'll go home, it is late
spk: Домой пошел // поздно уже
As you can see, conjunctions often are omitted and cases simplified, construction with Nominative is used much more often than in Literatural language. Shurely, regional and slang words are used as well. And phrase like:
Что Вы мне пытаетесь продать, бабушка? = What do you try to sell me, granny (old lady)?
can become:
Ты что за муру мне впихиваешь, старая кошелка? = What a s**t you push to me, old bag?
Sorry for rudeness of the last example.
|
_________________________
لو كان الفقر رجلا لقتلته
Last edited by: Matroskin on 22 Sep 05
IP: Hidden |
|
|
22 Sep 05 |
|
Psyche
Nymph of Norway
Posts: 5769
Joined: 23 Jul 04
From: Andalucia
|
|
|
22 Sep 05 |
|
Joe
Forum Administrator
Posts: 4709
Joined: 24 Nov 04
From: Pittsburgh, PA US
|
Those are really interesting examples matroskin. Exactly the kinds of things I was wondering about. Большое спасибо!!
While I think that I learn a fair amount from the books I have, I must admit, after that exchange years back with the German exchange student, the functional ways of saying things interest me greatly. I think that if fluency is my goal in a language, I wouls shy away from the "bookish" ways of saying things (because while "correct", as your examples show, there are just other ways of actually saying things). I hope there are more additions to this thread.
|
_________________________
I could tell you so much more, but instead let me share one last insight. Don't pity me or try to cure or change me. If you could live in my head for just one day, you might weep at how much beauty I perceive in the world with my exquisite senses. I would not trade one small bit of that beauty, as overwhelming and powerful as it can be, for "normalcy."
~ quote from a CNN editor, on her living within the autistic spectrum
IP: Hidden |
|
|
23 Sep 05 |
|
Matroskin
Active Member
Posts: 154
Joined: 11 Sep 05
From: Saratov
|
Russian, used in newspapers, TV, business, public speech or radio is always Literatural. But phrases that you can hear on streets...
1) Pronounciation: Greeting "Здравствуйте!". Russian can say it as "Здрасте", "Драсте" and even something like "Дрсст"; "Магазин" can be said as "Гамазин" or "Магаз".
2) Prepositions and cases can be changed: "Говорить за политику" instead of "Говорить о политике"; "Кина не будет" (there'll be no cinema); "Ушла в зеленой пальте" (she has gone in a green warmcoat) etc.
3) Words can be substituted, e.g. "Тачка" (wheelbarrow) instead of "машина" (car); "Ложка" (spoon) instead of "Гитара" (guitar) etc.
4) Words can accept another meaning: "Здравствуйте" or "Приехали" can mean something like "Oops!", when something unpleasant and sudden has happened.
4) Words, taked directly from another languages, can be used, e.g. "чувак" (a lad, from Gypsie), "хайры", "пиплы" (long hair, people, from English).
5) A lot of words-parasites without any meaning, e.g. "типа" (alike), "ну" (well), "в общем" (in common) etc.
6) Enormous usage of abusing, uncensored words. Alas, sometimes even high-educated people allow themselves speak such a way.
IMHO such things are common for any language. Maybe for native English speaker language of BBC dictors and language of TV soap-operas are the same, but for me these are two different languages 
|
_________________________
لو كان الفقر رجلا لقتلته
IP: Hidden |
|
|
23 Sep 05 |
|
Amadeus
Active Member
Posts: 391
Joined: 22 Oct 05
From: A Communist State of Gravy and Glory
|
Quote:Originally posted by Matroskin
3) Words can be substituted, e.g. "Тачка" (wheelbarrow) instead of "машина" (car); "Ложка" (spoon) instead of "Гитара" (guitar) etc.
|
|
|
What do you mean by this? That words can be subsituted for others? It confuses me because I see no similar between a spoon and a guitar.
|
_________________________
Thats my six pence for today.
नौकर
IP: Hidden |
|
|
29 Oct 05 |
|
Joe
Forum Administrator
Posts: 4709
Joined: 24 Nov 04
From: Pittsburgh, PA US
|
I would assume it's similar to how in English some words are substituted for others. For example, rock musicians sometimes refer to their guitar as an "axe" - if the term is in the correct context, it makes sense. Out of context though, I'd imagine it can cause confusion. Another that comes to mind is a gun being called (in slang) an "iron" or a "rod".
Can't think of many more right now, maybe more will come to my head later.
|
_________________________
I could tell you so much more, but instead let me share one last insight. Don't pity me or try to cure or change me. If you could live in my head for just one day, you might weep at how much beauty I perceive in the world with my exquisite senses. I would not trade one small bit of that beauty, as overwhelming and powerful as it can be, for "normalcy."
~ quote from a CNN editor, on her living within the autistic spectrum
IP: Hidden |
|
|
29 Oct 05 |
|
|
|
|
Home
Search
Members
Faq
Online
Login
Register
Show Printable Version
Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread